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Thread: The FBI has raided Mar-A-Lago

  1. #16
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    I believe that those who authorized this, beginning with AG Garland, the Judge that approved the search warrant, and those who carried it out all know this will come under the highest of scrutiny. The screaming from the rinos began immediately.
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

  2. #17
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    Darn right! That search warrant was reviewed by multiple lawyers before ever taking it to a judge who further scrutinized it. No one wants to screw this up.

    I used to drive my guys crazy when I scrutinized their search warrants and played devil's advocate before taking them to the DA for more scrutinizing before taking it to a judge who further scrutinized it before signing or rejecting.
    The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible - Arthur C. Clarke

  3. #18
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    Oh, I'm sure the paperwork is all shipshape and Bristol fashion, but they better be after more than just protecting plain Jane government records that he should have turned over. An FBI raid because he mishandled paper? Better be more than that or else this is foul play. If it is just about records, it could have been handled with a subpoena and a court order, not a raid.

    And I'm not excited about the "classified" information he might have. As President, he could have declassified anything he wanted, anytime he wanted, by just taking a black Sharpie (ok, that's mean...) and crossing out the word "classified" on a document. Presto! Now it is declassified. For him, mishandling classified documents is a process error, not a crime, because he's the President. Different rules apply. So again, unless they are after something big here, I'm remembering the days of J Edgar and not liking this.

    There better be something big ON the papers.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
    ........ it could have been handled with a subpoena and a court order, not a raid........
    Really? Subpoena evidence (records) in a criminal investigation from a person who is a known destroyer of records? That would be like issuing a subpoena to a drug dealer to turn over his drugs for evidence. I can hear the toilet flushing from here.

    Besides, Trump is no longer President and does not have the power to declassify anything.
    The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible - Arthur C. Clarke

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I can hear the toilet flushing from here.
    Exactly----as I was reading that I could hear the flushing sound in the background
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

  6. #21
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    Besides, everyone seems to think this search is about missing records. What if it is really about Jan. 6th and the records are just a smoke screen to hide why they were really there? We don't really know why they were there, yet.
    The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible - Arthur C. Clarke

  7. #22
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    That goes back to your flushing comment. The only reason that would be a big issue is because of what is ON the paper, not the handling of the paper. If all this was, was a follow through because the National Archives says Trump mishandled the records from his administration and they belong in the National Archives instead of Mar-a-Lago, that is indeed a subpoena and a court order. If it is about what is contained on those papers, it is a raid. So far, the only actual crime that is being discussed is handling the paper and perhaps mishandling classified information, both of which are pretty little fishies for doing something that has never been done in the history of our nation - raiding the home of a former President.

    God help us if this turns out to be some sort of bootstrapping operation. Get in the door with a process violation, technically a crime but one for which there are no penalties, grab up the documents and see if there is anything juicy to go further. That's when this becomes a "get Trump" operation instead of a law enforcement operation. If the FBI is going to do this sort of a raid, they better be playing it straight. They don't get to go fishing to see what is in the water. They have to know the fish are there.

    Trump could easily settle this. He would have been given a copy of the warrant, listing the reasons for the removal, as well as a receipt for any documents removed. Or so I've read. Easy to settle the issue of what the nature of the raid was.

    Question for Mike - can the police use a smoke screen in the manner you describe? What would be the purpose of hiding the true reasons on a search warrant? And doesn't that make you a little nervous if they can do that? Because to me, it smacks of weaponizing the FBI.

  8. #23
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    I don't mean a smoke screen in the warrant it self, or even using the warrant as a precept to look for something else. That would be illegal.

    I mean leaking to the public/media just enough to make it look like they were looking for records when that is not really the case. They might temporarily want to hide the real reason for the search from other suspects.
    The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible - Arthur C. Clarke

  9. #24
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    Well, that's good news!!

    OK, next question - when a search warrant is served, doesn't it list the reason for the warrant on the copy that must be given to the person undergoing the search? Along with what is being looked for? Where I'm headed is, Trump could very quickly make that public and end any speculation. If he wanted to, that is. And if he doesn't make it public, as a court document, can't it be obtained by the public? And can't the FBI release it?

    It just seems that there is a LOT of needless speculation going on here.

  10. #25
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    Perhaps the real reason for the search is residing in the hands of the fbi . They just needed a box to put it in and then fish it out as if it were in there all the time.

    Hooray , looket what we found. A secret document . Let's hang him.

    And if anyone does not think that could happen , ,you need to get off the meds. I'll accept the fact that there are people who hate Trump here BUT , they have been after him for seven years and to this point I don't see him in an orange jump suit .

    Name me one other person who has been investigated as much . Also, don't forget the RUSSIA < RUSSIA crap that members of the fbi screamed about.

    Perhaps shiff of brains will bring out some of the proof of Trump breaking the law .
    Individual rights are protected only as long as they don't conflict with the desires of the state .

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
    Well, that's good news!!

    OK, next question - when a search warrant is served, doesn't it list the reason for the warrant on the copy that must be given to the person undergoing the search? Along with what is being looked for? Where I'm headed is, Trump could very quickly make that public and end any speculation. If he wanted to, that is. And if he doesn't make it public, as a court document, can't it be obtained by the public? And can't the FBI release it?

    It just seems that there is a LOT of needless speculation going on here.
    A search warrant requires a probable cause affidavit which states what crime has been committed and what is being searched for. A copy of the search warrant and an inventory of what is taken is left with the resident or if no one is there, nailed to the door or some other prominent place where the resident will be sure to see it. I once stopped a deputy from nailing a search warrant to the front door because the door was just too damn nice to be defaced like that. That was after I had told them to find a different entrance point for the same reason. See, sometimes I do have a heart!
    The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible - Arthur C. Clarke

  12. #27
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    I agree with Mike on the legal process issues and I agree with Kevin on the philosophical issues he has raised
    OPINION....a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

  13. #28
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    Unless the court seals the search warrant return we will find out what they were searching for and what they found after the return is filed with the court. I don't know how long they have to file the return in federal court, but in Texas we have 3 whole days from when the search warrant was executed to file the return with the court.
    The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible - Arthur C. Clarke

  14. #29
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    It is said that trump got broadsided by this, he never thought they would do anything like this. But, while he may have been shocked---he still had enough control to send out another cash appeal from the cult---maybe to fix the safe
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Grubb View Post
    It is said that trump got broadsided by this, he never thought they would do anything like this. But, while he may have been shocked---he still had enough control to send out another cash appeal from the cult---maybe to fix the safe
    He probably had pretty good reasoning to believe this wouldn't have happened since it's never happened before. Yeah there's lots of people capitalizing on this issue for fundraising including her majesty Hillary who has capitalized on it selling caps another nonsense to raise money.
    OPINION....a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

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