A bright spot?

[Dave Grubb]

The Kansas primary this week, that saw a ballot question asking if abortion rights should be removed from the state constitution was rejected---pro-choice advocates rejoiced. Independent of that outcome, I see something else that causes me to rejoice-----independent voters.

The turnout was similar to presidential elections and multiples of normal primary elections. It also saw 100,000 independent voters turn out for only one reason, to vote on the question. Kansas is a closed primary state.

I am encouraged by:

1. The overall turnout
2. The turnout of independent voters----we can make a difference

The vote was not immune from what has become a rino trademark---skullduggery.

A text message sent to some Kansas voters Monday is being called misleading and an outright lie.

The message urges people to vote yes on the so-called Value Them Both Amendment. The amendment would make clear the Kansas constitution does not grant the right to an abortion.

The message states, “Women in KS are losing their choice on reproductive rights. Voting YES on the Amendment will give women a choice. Vote YES to protect women’s health.”

Those arguments, however, are points raised from those urging a ‘no’ vote.

“This is yet another example of the desperate and deceitful tactics of the Value Them Both campaign, lying to the voters of Kansas,” said Ashley All, spokesperson for Kansans for Constitutional Freedom. “The truth is that voting yes opens the door to a total ban on abortion. A NO vote maintains current regulations on abortion. A NO vote protects our constitutional right to safe, legal abortion in Kansas. A NO vote keeps the constitution unchanged. A NO vote prevents government control over private medical decisions.”

I hope this is a positive indicator of the power of independent voters

[UTAH]

The upshot is, Democracy works.

If all the Independents vote in our next Presidential election, America will be better for it.

Hunter

[Kevin]

Just as an aside, the men who helped write the Constitution had a perfect horror of democracy.

These people were extremely well-educated and searched through history to learn what went right and what went wrong with various forms of government. In Classical Athens, they had plenty of examples of what goes wrong with democracy. During the Peloponnesian War, Athens - which was governed by a direct democracy - did some absolutely unconscionable things. Because one of the islands off Greece did not want to be involved in the fracas between Sparta and Athens, the Athenian democracy voted to put all the men of the island over the age of 10 to death and enslave the remainder. After one famous battle was lost to the Spartans, the demos voted to execute the surviving Athenian generals. Stuff like this made people like Madison extremely afraid of popular democracy.

So they created all sorts of checks and balances, not the least of which was a very elite system of choosing a President - the Electoral College, where the Electors could substitute their choice for President, throwing out the will of the voters if the voters, in the Electors' opinion, had nominated someone unfit for office. A very elitist system but one created by seeing the horror a democracy can become.

Just a historical perspective.

[Honda]

The Kansas primary this week, that saw a ballot question asking if abortion rights should be removed from the state constitution was rejected---pro-choice advocates rejoiced. Independent of that outcome, I see something else that causes me to rejoice-----independent voters.

The turnout was similar to presidential elections and multiples of normal primary elections. It also saw 100,000 independent voters turn out for only one reason, to vote on the question. Kansas is a closed primary state.

I am encouraged by:

1. The overall turnout
2. The turnout of independent voters----we can make a difference

The vote was not immune from what has become a rino trademark---skullduggery.



I hope this is a positive indicator of the power of independent voters

Yet you deny being pro-choice. You are a chameleon. And really don't disgust with a response say you were talking about the politics of the issue and not the reality of abortion.

[Dave Grubb]

Yet you deny being pro-choice. You are a chameleon. And really don't disgust with a response say you were talking about the politics of the issue and not the reality of abortion.

Understanding anything can be a challenge when you are drunk----maybe things will clear up for you in the morning.

[Honda]

Understanding anything can be a challenge when you are drunk----maybe things will clear up for you in the morning.

LMAO... A true chameleon.

[Dave Grubb]

LMAO... A true chameleon.

Tell me how you come to that accusation.

[Honda]

I don't think I can do that without discussing religion. I'd be glad to PM you my thoughts. But I don't think you'd be receptive to that.

[Dave Grubb]

I don't think I can do that without discussing religion. I'd be glad to PM you my thoughts. But I don't think you'd be receptive to that.

BS----you have accused me of something, now tell us what you based that on. There is no issue with discussing religion so that is only a dodge.

This is not the first time you have tried to distort what I have said. Look at this thread.

I’ve long argued that abortion should be regarded as a moral issue, not a legal issue, and those sincerely wishing to reduce abortions should focus instead on changing the moral conversation surrounding the practice. Another way for these folks to frame the issue would be to say, “I have no interest in making abortion illegal; I want to make it unthinkable.” Such a posture requires much more effort, but it would ultimately be more effective for their stated goals. And it goes without saying that such efforts must be coupled with sex education and access to contraception.

I have clearly stated my position. If you are unable to comprehend that, I can't help you.

[Honda]

Yet you lauded the election in Kansas.

[Dave Grubb]

Yet you lauded the election in Kansas.

Obviously, it is over your head

[Phillbo]

I'm conrfused..If everyone turned off the tv for a month we would come out on the other side a better world!!!!

[Phillbo]

Obviously, it is over your head

Why the 'tude?

[Truckman]

Why the 'tude?

I agree...It's bad enough when two otherwise respected members hate each other, but to air it out in public is disrespectful to the purpose of this board and its founder...Meet in a back alley somewhere and have it out if you have to...I'm tired of hearing it......Ben

[Honda]

I agree...It's bad enough when two otherwise respected members hate each other, but to air it out in public is disrespectful to the purpose of this board and its founder...Meet in a back alley somewhere and have it out if you have to...I'm tired of hearing it......Ben

Well I consider myself admonished my friend.