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Thread: Russian tanks

  1. 03-08-2023, 09:16 AM #1
    Dave Grubb's Avatar
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    Russian tanks

    There is a very interesting article in this morning's WSJ about an effective Ukrainian defensive operation in Eastern Ukraine.

    Dozens of tanks and armored vehicles were disabled by mines---all filmed by a drone(s)---with the video being part of the article. It is a bit amazing to watch. The Ukrainians mined the roads leading into and out of intersections (in the country side). The tanks simply kept going down the same roads---and got blown up one and a time. The intersections end up looking like junk yards, which is exactly what they are

    The explanation of this is primarily due to typical Russian behavior. The command centers are remote from the action and the troops on the ground have no option to exercise autonomy. So---they just keep driving down the same road to the same fate

    They also sited the lack of training of the new recruits---many of which have had only a few weeks of training.

    All very good comrade----keep up the "good" work
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
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  2. 03-08-2023, 09:29 AM #2
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    Tank driver: "But comrade commander, we go down same road as all other tanks that get blown up...Won't we get blown up too?"...

    Tank commander: "Yes, but our families back home stay alive for another day"...
    ...Ben
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  3. 03-08-2023, 10:08 AM #3
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    Good point comrade
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis
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  4. 03-08-2023, 08:12 PM #4
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    We (armor/tank) personnel were trained to keep moving when in the field - cause our tanks auto-track enemy tanks (something, at the time, others could not do). So, once you locked the main gun on an enemy, we would circle it, firing as we did so. But, I'm betting other tanks can do that now (my armor experience was in the 70s).

    I've seen pics of the destroyed Russian tanks. It appears many of them had the turret blown off the tank. That suggests, to me, the joining of the turret and the body is a weak link.

    May our Ukrainian allies continue to slam-dunk Russians. Putin is obviously trying to recreate a Soviet dictatorship. Any assistance we, and our allies, give Ukraine weakens Putin.

    Hunter
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  5. 03-09-2023, 08:25 AM #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by UTAH View Post

    I've seen pics of the destroyed Russian tanks. It appears many of them had the turret blown off the tank. That suggests, to me, the joining of the turret and the body is a weak link.

    Hunter
    It is more than that. The force that blows the turret off is internally generated. It happens as a result of the ammunition load exploding. The Russians tanks store the ammunition unprotected under the turret near the breech of the main gun, which allows them to operate with one less crew member than our tanks.

    The problem relates to how the tanks' ammunition is stored. Unlike modern Western tanks, Russian ones carry multiple shells within their turrets. This makes them highly vulnerable as even an indirect hit can start a chain reaction that explodes their entire ammunition store of up to 40 shells.
    It is called the Jack-in-the-box flaw

    It might be better called the Comrade-in-the-box flaw
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
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  6. 03-09-2023, 08:42 AM #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Grubb View Post
    The Russians tanks store the ammunition unprotected under the turret near the breech of the main gun, which allows them to operate with one less crew member than our tanks.
    Followed quickly by several less......Ben
    The future is forged on the anvil of history...The interpreter of history wields the hammer... - Unknown author...
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  7. 03-09-2023, 08:04 PM #7
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    Well, our Tanks operated with 3 crewmen. So, I'll assume they're using two crewmen. At some point, they'll have to decide if saving money on 1 crew member is worth the increased risk.

    Ever seen what an armor-piercing projectile does to a tank? The outside looks fine except for the small entry wound. But, on the inside, everything has been spaghettified as the round bounced around.

    Hunter
    I don't care if it hurts. I want to have control. I want a perfect body. I want a perfect soul. - Creep by Radiohead
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  8. 03-09-2023, 08:12 PM #8
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    Today a US crew is four. Commander, driver, gunner and loader.
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis
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  9. 03-10-2023, 07:58 PM #9
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    The things I learn on this site.

    Hunter
    I don't care if it hurts. I want to have control. I want a perfect body. I want a perfect soul. - Creep by Radiohead
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  10. 03-10-2023, 08:26 PM #10
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    and watching tanks get cut to shreds you understand why the Army wanted no more M1 Tanks. But the Congressional critters saw only jobs and dollars to their constituents and refuse to kill the program. and you wonder why the defense budget hs so much BS in it.

    https://www.military.com/daily-news/...esnt-want.html

    https://havokjournal.com/nation/cong...-st-dont-need/
    Last edited by TriGuy; 03-10-2023 at 09:29 PM.
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  11. 03-11-2023, 08:11 PM #11
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    "Congress voted for another $183 million for tanks despite Odierno's argument that the Army was seeking to become a lighter force. He told the Associated Press at the time that "if we had our choice, we would use that money in a different way" than spending it on 70-ton Abrams tanks."
    - Military.com

    It doesn't make sense - unless benefiting the local economy factors in.

    Hunter
    I don't care if it hurts. I want to have control. I want a perfect body. I want a perfect soul. - Creep by Radiohead
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