Another chance

[Dave Grubb]

Sometime ago I posted about taking a PA Dutch dialect course---but that didn't get far---the teacher died

So--now I am about to embark on another try from the local historians society---all virtual this time. I hope this guy is in better health

I'll be interested to see how much and how fast it comes back to me---it was one of two native languages for me. My Mother insisted on only English in the house, but outside it was all the dialect. Clearly my Mother saw the writing on the wall----and it wasn't in the dialect.

Recently I watched a TV series on Italy and much of the dialog was in Italian with subscripts. At the beginning I had the CC turned on---it wasn't too many segments into it that I could turn the CCs off---I was back in the swing with my Italian.

[Dave Grubb]

Foiled once more----the classes are filled

[Sandman]

My mom’s family is Italian, Jersey City Italian.. growing up my Jersey uncles would cuss and slander and insult in Italian.. fast forward fifty years.. I understood a lot of the “slang” on the Sopranos..

Like hearing an old song.. when you hear it you remember it but would not have thought of it on your own..

[Dave Grubb]

I used to go to an Italian Pork Shop on Long Island that was run by two old Italians. I could converse with them----but the first and second generation Americans----forgetaboutit!

That isn't Italian---that is new world slang----it took me for ever to figure out that "brachute" was in reality prosciutto and when I tried to correct the guy that had been misleading me all along he told be I was wrong

The way I figured it out was being in the store one day when a longguyland native came in and ordered "brachute" and rapini on a long roll---and I watched what they made!

[Kevin]

I never found any Amish or Old Order Mennonite that did not understand Hochdeutsch. Second best but close.

[Dave Grubb]

That is far from universal Kevin. Some have been schooled in high German which is still common in worship functions and music but departs from the dialect. Their current Bibles are all German Bibles. I would call myself fully functional in German----but no longer so in the dialect.

Keep in mind that the dialect stopped homeland development in the late 1700's early 1800's. So anything that has changed since then has been developed here----as an example
, "car". In Germany it is "wagen", in the dialect it is "machine", and many similar "modern" inventions are also "machines".

This evolution of the language has spawned a great degree of regionalization. Case in point: "manure spreader" Within 20 miles of here there are at lest 4 different terms for "manure spreader". Further influenced by the fact that "manure" has multiple words, as does spreader. BTW----none are machine

[Truckman]

Within 20 miles of here there are at lest 4 different terms for "manure spreader".

On this site the term is known by many names, among them Truckman......Ben

[Dave Grubb]

Now that you mention it----we have far more than four terms right here

Back to the original issue---I just got an email from the Historical Society who is offering this course. I sent an email "appeal" this morning---and it worked

It looks like I'm in

[Sandman]

I read an article that American, New Jersey /New York Italian is not real Italian, it’s a local dialect of 100 year old Italian..

[Mike]

Makes complete sense, unlike the language.

[UTAH]

I sent an email "appeal" this morning---and it worked.

Nice. May it go well.

Hunter

[Dave Grubb]

It's official---I just received my text book and I have been assigned to a Saturday afternoon class

A little more about the divergence of the "native" language and the language as spoken here which underwent 300 plus years of independent divergence.

Maybe 40 years ago I was loaned a text book by one of our oldest nuns--who was born in Germany. The book was published about 1900 and was a Pa Dutch to English grammar book, intended to teach English to students who spoke only the dialect.

The only one I found who could read it with any ease was an old lady in Swabia---an area were many of the original migrants originated. She said there were many words she encountered that she had not heard used since her childhood. My own family originated close by in the Palatinate.

[Kevin]

Ok, your experience is different from mine. I've conducted interviews with Amish and Mennonite farmers in Hochdeutsch and they were fine with it. They said that while it was not what they spoke amongst themselves, because it was used in their services, they understood me well enough.

Second best, definitely, but by no means useless.

[Dave Grubb]

I'm curious as to why you did that Kevin. I don't know any Amish or Old Order Mennonites today who are not conversant in English or have reservations about speaking English.

Just a comment on Hochdeutsch in Germany---it is both the "official" German as well as a dialect in the south of the country. Back in the late 80's into the early 90's I was intimately involved in the design of a new and very complex manufacturing line. There were three primary companies in Germany involved. Two were from the north of the country and spoke low German, the other from Swabia and spoke Hochdeutsch. These companies were all under common ownership but had only recently been joined together. During the design phase and then building phase, which lasted about 2 years, I would go to Germany every two months for a project review. All three companies would be represented. On occasion we had language problems to overcome. Germany is a bit like the US---with the "Mason Dixon line" running through Frankfurt. On a few occasions, my combination of low, high and the dialect would come in handy to smooth the understanding. There were particular technical words that they would get tripped up on. I continued to work with those companies up until I retired in 2021---they have almost completely integrated any language problems.

[Kevin]

A number of reasons, Dave

1) It gave me an immediate relationship with them

2) It was fun and everyone laughed about how we ended up searching for the right words sometimes

3) I got fed a number of times, sparking my enjoyment of shoo fly pie and linzer torte and erdbeer sahn torte.

4) I was fresh out of college and showing off

Everyone spoke English just fine. We were having fun. They were amused by an English that could speak - sorta - their language and I like finding ways to connect with people on a personal level. Just having fun.