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Thread: Court of appeals nixes special master

  1. #1
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    Court of appeals nixes special master

    The three-judge panel of the 11th US Circuit Court of Appeals reversed US District Judge Aileen Cannon’s order appointing a so-called special master to sort through thousands of documents found at Trump’s home to determine what should be off limits to investigators. The court said the judge should not have intervened in the first place
    “The law is clear,” the appeals court wrote. “We cannot write a rule that allows any subject of a search warrant to block government investigations after the execution of the warrant. Nor can we write a rule that allows only former presidents to do so.”
    The 11th Circuit said that either approach would be a “radical reordering of our caselaw limiting the federal courts’ involvement in criminal investigations” and that “both would violate bedrock separation-of-powers limitations.”

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/01/polit...ter/index.html




    READ: Appeals court ruling halting special master review of Mar-a-Lago documents
    "The only thing that we learn from torture is the depths of our own moral depravity"

  2. #2
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    Asking for a special master in this case was disingenuous from the beginning. In my experience it was nothing more than a delaying tactic.
    OPINION....a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

  3. #3
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    I'm sticking with bimbo.
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

  4. #4
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    I first heard the term "bimbo" in 1971. It was being applied to my mother.

    She was a school teacher at that time. She loved sewing and making her own clothes. In the 1960s, she had McCall's and Butterick and all sorts of patterns to make dresses but in the 1970s, pantsuits for women were just becoming popular and my Mom was a fairly stylish lady! She made a lovely pantsuit for herself and wore it to teach school. The school board was scandalized and technically, she was in violation of the school dress code which mandated that women wear dresses only, with a minimum length of mid-shin. It became a real issue when the parents got involved and in a public meeting about the dress code, she was called a bimbo by an angry parent. She left in tears. I learned that when people disagree with women, they often reach for personal insult to put them in their place and those terms are often sexual in nature. That pattern is misogyny in action.

    My next contact with this word came the following year, 1972. It was applied to my sister, who was 13 years old. In 1972, Title IX was passed that prohibited discrimination by sex in educational programs. My sister did not want to take Home Economics. She wanted to take wood shop. She was the very first young woman to do this at our school and she got called this by a number of parents who figured that she was of loose morals and trying to chase boys. The lesson was reinforced that when women challenge power or do things that people disagree with, it is common to make the disagreement personal and sexual.

    So I have a personal history with this word and I will say that I will call out misogyny when I see it no matter who it is, even a friend of nearly 20 years. Silence is complicity. In the past few years, I've heard unbelievably racist and bigoted remarks from people that I never would have imagined harbored those ideas and I've been forced to make a choice between standing up for what I believe is right or being silent. Silence gives license.

    Judge Cannon's legal opinion was deemed incorrect by three people further up the line. She got overruled. Just like LOTS of judges over the years. Notably, it is her legal opinion that is at issue, not her personally. She is not a bimbo or a **** or a bitch or a twat. She's just wrong on the law. That's all.

    And I also think that the need to put a woman in her place with a term that brings sex into what is a difference of opinion is misogyny in another form and I call it out when it happens. Even if it means destroying a friendship of 20 years. My Mom and my sister deserved better and so does Judge Cannon, even if I disagree with her on the merits of her legal opinion.

  5. #5
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    I won't hold your opinion against you Kevin
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

  6. #6
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    Kevin, your mom and sister should never have been treated that way, people (otherwise nice people) can be so thoughtless when there is a difference of opinion.

    One of the world’s largest bakers is Pan (bread) Bimbo (beem-bow) .. has a cute bear logo.. the wonder bread and hostess cup cakes of Spain..

  7. #7
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    The real issue:

    In Atlanta the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit said that the district court had no jurisdiction to block the U.S. government from using the records it seized in the criminal investigation of former president Trump. That is, when U.S. District Judge Aileen M. Cannon allowed Trump’s request for a special master to review the documents seized by the FBI in its search of Mar-a-Lago on August 8, she assumed power the district court did not have. Special Master Raymond Dearie will be dismissed, and the criminal investigation of the former president will go forward.

    The panel noted in their decision that they were unwilling to “carve out an unprecedented exception in our law for former presidents.” The judges acknowledged that “[i]t is indeed extraordinary for a warrant to be executed at the home of a former president,” but “[t]o create a special exception here would defy our Nation’s foundational principle that our law applies ‘to all, without regard to numbers, wealth, or rank.’”

    It continued: “The law is clear. We cannot write a rule that allows any subject of a search warrant to block government investigations after the execution of the warrant. Nor can we write a rule that allows only former presidents to do so. Either approach would be a radical reordering of our caselaw limiting the federal courts’ involvement in criminal investigations. And both would violate bedrock separation-of-powers limitations.”

    All three judges on the panel were nominated by Republican presidents: Judge William H. Pryor by President George W. Bush; Judges Andrew L. Brasher and Britt C. Grant, by Trump.
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

  8. #8
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    It would seem that the court has upheld my ruling in previous posts that no one is above the law, even former presidents.
    The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible - Arthur C. Clarke

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    I think it means something more---it means that these judges, two of whom were appointed by trump, did not compromise their moral and legal ethics to embrace trump's loyalty expectations. Something the bimbo was willing to do---more than once.
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Grubb View Post
    I think it means something more---it means that these judges, two of whom were appointed by trump, did not compromise their moral and legal ethics to embrace trump's loyalty expectations. Something the bimbo was willing to do---more than once.
    I hope this sentiment is not adopted every time a ruling comes down that people disagree with. There's a lot of Trump judges on the ground and nothing can be done about it. They're going to make rulings some people will agree with and some people will not but I think it's quite unfair to attack a jurist based on who nominated them.
    OPINION....a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

  11. #11
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    Especially since two of the three that overruled Cannon were appointed by Trump. Guess that makes them pricks. Or legal whores. Or, since they came down with a ruling one might agree with, wise solons of jurisprudence? Until they issue some ruling one disagrees with, of course. Then they are back to being pricks. Definitely. This is hard to keep straight...

    Maybe a sticky with a bunch of childish names could be put up, so we know at least the correct verbiage? That would be good. I really dislike calling people the wrong names.

  12. #12
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    Bimbos pricks and whores - well, that pretty much covers the politicians we discuss.

    Hunter
    I don't care if it hurts. I want to have control. I want a perfect body. I want a perfect soul. - Creep by Radiohead

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by UTAH View Post
    Bimbos pricks and whores - well, that pretty much covers the politicians we discuss.

    Hunter
    yeah but the hard part is figuring out which one is which on any given day
    "The only thing that we learn from torture is the depths of our own moral depravity"

  14. #14
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    I've spent a few days analyzing my own reaction to this term. Apart from the personal history and how it was used to cause harm to the women in my life, I think that generally, I don't like terms that have a history of discrimination behind them. I don't care if someone calls Cannon a nut job, or an idiot, or a hack. What bothers me is when terms are used that have been used in the past to keep a group "in their place" and diminish them as a group.

    So, I don't like terms that are used to keep African Americans down such as n*****, or sp*** or whatever. I don't like terms that have been used to keep Chinese down (ch***, sl***) or Jews down (k***, he**) or fat people (lar**, fa***) or that sort of thing. Those terms have a history that come with them. Calling someone a nut job or a whacko or whatnot don't bother me, probably because they don't carry the same history but I suppose that's inconsistent of me. People with mental illness have faced discrimination. I guess the manner in which it is being used also is important. If one is using that sort of term at a specific member of those groups, in an effort to demean them personally, then yeah, I think that is wrong. So it is nuanced, like so much in our society. Hard and fast rules are hard to come by.

    I suppose it comes down to the intent as well as the context. There is nothing in Cannon's background to justify sexualizing the opposition to her legal opinion. That seems like misogyny and personalizes opposition in an inappropriate way. I understand the need to lash out in anger at someone but I think we as grown men and women can act in a more mature manner. Her legal opinion was at issue here, not her personally, and making it about her personally demeans her as human being, especially when the term being used has been thrown at women specifically in an attempt to shut them up.

    Now Marjorie Taylor Greene's Jewish space lasers? Yeah, that's nuts. But it is her opinion that is nutty. I dunno if she is crazy but I think some of her opinions are.

    Postscript -

    We are a small community here. I don't know about anyone else but I am older than I was when this site started. I am not proud of some of my own behavior from years ago and I am trying to do better. If any of you had made a personal request to me to avoid using a term that you don't like, I would and have complied. I view this site kind of like sitting down at Starbucks with friends, just shooting the ****. We might rag on each other but if someone is serious about something, that is respected, at least by me. When I opened up about a very hurtful history of that specific term and how it made me aware of the misogyny is our society, I had hopes that this would be respected. The English language has about 170,000 words and surely a different one could have been chosen by mature, educated adults. And I thought that had occurred when the topic went back to discussing her legal opinion. I was very disheartened to see that term used just two posts later and my reaction was that a member here had just essentially told me to go take a flying **** at a rolling doughnut. So I wonder if the nature of the site has changed over the years. That would be too bad.

  15. #15
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    OK Kevin---despite the fact that my choice of the term I used for this phony judge had no historical connection at all---I concede and will only use terms like
    a nut job, or an idiot, or a hack.
    as adjectives when referring to her.


    That said----I think it worth noting, within the context of the original posting, that this "....nut job, or an idiot, or a hack" has been widely dismissed, by her peers as clearly out of her league as it relates to jurisprudence. She is where she is because the Federalist Society ran her flag up trump's pole----period!

    I think it appropriate to repeat the original post:

    The three-judge panel of the 11th US Circuit Court of Appeals reversed US District Judge Aileen Cannon’s order appointing a so-called special master to sort through thousands of documents found at Trump’s home to determine what should be off limits to investigators. The court said the judge should not have intervened in the first place
    “The law is clear,” the appeals court wrote. “We cannot write a rule that allows any subject of a search warrant to block government investigations after the execution of the warrant. Nor can we write a rule that allows only former presidents to do so.”
    The 11th Circuit said that either approach would be a “radical reordering of our caselaw limiting the federal courts’ involvement in criminal investigations” and that “both would violate bedrock separation-of-powers limitations.”

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/01/polit...ter/index.html
    So---based on that I am perfectly fine with nut job, idiot, or hack to describe this trumped up phony judge
    Last edited by Dave Grubb; 12-04-2022 at 06:15 PM.
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

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