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Thread: Self-driving cars

  1. #1
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    10-23-01
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    Self-driving cars

    Anyone else a little leery about this development? I am extremely skeptical about the safety of these things.

    I think they are using the wrong paradigm. Tesla and others seem to be proceeding from the idea that if they can describe the world accurately enough (geography via super current imagery) and build in enough logic to handle situational issues (neural networks) then a self-driving car in a city is feasible. The problem is, they are relying on massive amounts of data, and predictions of gazillions of situations with squared gazillions of possible outcomes, all being accurately and fully processed instantly. That is an unbelievable number of failure points.

    I think that a much better approach would be to start smaller and rely on the existing interstate system. Develop a system akin to maglev and let the system worry only about spacing. All control is passed over to the system, which only has to ensure that proper spacing is maintained. The maglev system brakes for you, enters and exits the interstate for you. You can put a LOT more cars onto the system because you don't have to worry about driver reaction time. You just need to worry about keeping a couple of feet between cars. You don't have to worry about accident bottlenecks. Just lay in a temporary track bypassing a problem. It is a much less complex system and easily done with existing technology. Punch in the destination, roll up to the entry maglev station, and go to sleep or watch a movie or whatever. "Go maglev and leave the driving to us."

    Prove it with the interstate and then migrate it to the cities. Seems a better approach than the massively complex system being worked on now.

  2. #2
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    My car will pretty much drive itself when you're on cruise control. It will break by itself, adjust the speed for traffic ahead and automatically break. It's actually very good staying in between the lines. I still don't trust it completely but it's awful convenient when you want to reach down and get a piece of gum or open the top to a drink.
    OPINION....a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

  3. #3
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    I'm more concerned about the 80,000 pound self-driving 18 wheelers they want to put on the road...Somehow Stephen King and Maximum Overdrive come to mind...

    I'll stay with my manually operated Dodge/Cummins, thank you......Ben

    The future is forged on the anvil of history...The interpreter of history wields the hammer... - Unknown author...

  4. #4
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    Ha! My car can do all that AND grill food!



    The best part is when he is talking about getting some good oil steam flavoring by cracking the oil cap.

  5. #5
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    He wasn't very credible with that Craftsman shirt though...He would have been more believable as a serious manifold chef with a SnapOn shirt......Ben
    The future is forged on the anvil of history...The interpreter of history wields the hammer... - Unknown author...

  6. #6
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    My '20 Jeep is the first vehicle I've owned that hits the brakes when it thinks a collision is imminent. The first couple of times it happened it surprised me. But, if it leads to an insurance discount, I'm all for it.

    Hunter
    I don't care if it hurts. I want to have control. I want a perfect body. I want a perfect soul. - Creep by Radiohead

  7. #7
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    My 2020 Explorer might be called "self-driving" by some but that is far from realistic. It does all the basic functions on its own---but it is very restricted by Ford---and understandably so.

    First of all, the difference between autonomous and self-driving need to be clarified. Autonomous means it can go from point A to point B on it's own---including turns, stop signs, traffic signals etc.

    The Explorer will start, stop, maintain speed (cruise control setting) and match traffic speed. I loved that in NYC driving---I could do the entire length of the Cross Bronxs Expressway at an average stop and go speed of 6 minutes/per mile. I did the steering and it did the rest as long as we were not idle too long and the engine shut-off. In that case, I had to restart by either pushing the resume button or stepping on the brake.

    Steering is another matter----and Ford does not even acknowledge that it is capable of self steering----it is called lane keeping assistance. I will confess to (as safely as possible) probed this feature and it will on it's own go around a curve and maintain the lane----to a point---and the point is a few seconds of hands off the wheel-----and then there is a warning that says something to the effect of "put your hands back on the wheel stupid"!

    That "ability" is linked entirely to the forward looking camera(s) ability to see both the center line and the fog line----if not there it is inactive. One of the little wrinkles about that, is that depending on the sun glare and angle, it can be confused by cracks in the pavement that have been filled by sealant and the painted lines. Also, using your turn signal cancels that feature---so lane changes are on your own. It reconnects when you are done the lane change and turn off the turn signal.

    They are all good features but the driver needs to be aware of both the capability and the limitations. Unnecessary braking is one that clearly demonstrates the limits of that system. If I am following a car at---say 100 yards---and that car begins to slow to make a right turn----I know that car will be clear of the roadway before I get there---the system does not---it sees a car slowing down and begins braking. Depending on the differential speed that braking can be aggressive---and unnecessary.
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

  8. #8
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    Lane keeping assistance would be useful for me. I normally just shut my eyes and pray when rounding a corner.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
    Lane keeping assistance would be useful for me. I normally just shut my eyes and pray when rounding a corner.
    Curb feelers were a big help until my tinnitus worsened......Ben
    The future is forged on the anvil of history...The interpreter of history wields the hammer... - Unknown author...

  10. #10
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    Ahhh... I remember those, Ben. My Father (and his Father) had them on their big Oldsmobile 88's. I think if my Nieces and Nephews saw them on a car they'd say, "What's that?"

    Hunter
    I don't care if it hurts. I want to have control. I want a perfect body. I want a perfect soul. - Creep by Radiohead

  11. #11
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    You had to have them----just like you had to have your cigarette pack rolled up in your tee shirt sleeve, if not you just weren't cool


    And---for you young kids----that is a 58 Chevy
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    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

  12. #12
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    on our 3 vehicles there are no driver assist features. You pay attention or you wreck
    "The only thing that we learn from torture is the depths of our own moral depravity"

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by TriGuy View Post
    on our 3 vehicles there are no driver assist features. You pay attention or you wreck
    But I'm pretty sure Ruth's horsie has her own ideas of direction inside the arena......Ben
    The future is forged on the anvil of history...The interpreter of history wields the hammer... - Unknown author...

  14. #14
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    I like, "You pay attention or you wreck" but it's too long for a bumper sticker.

    Hunter
    I don't care if it hurts. I want to have control. I want a perfect body. I want a perfect soul. - Creep by Radiohead

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by UTAH View Post
    I like, "You pay attention or you wreck" but it's too long for a bumper sticker.

    Hunter
    my favorite

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    "The only thing that we learn from torture is the depths of our own moral depravity"

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