The fentanyl crisis

[Honda]

Seems to be getting worse every day. Killing thousands of people. Am I only one that sees a correlation between the increase in the supply of fentanyl and the open border problem?

[Mike]

Seems to be getting worse every day. Killing thousands of people. Am I only one that sees a correlation between the increase in the supply of fentanyl and the open border problem?

I don't believe the open border has much to do with the influx of drugs of any kind. The cartels and the importers of drugs before them have always been able to get drugs into our country and they always will. The only way to stop the importation of illicit chemicals is to sell legalized drugs here at a better price than smuggled drugs.

There is a huge market here for drugs of just about any kind. Where there is a market, there will be people who try to profit from that market, legal or not. As prohibition has already proven, and the war against drugs has had the same results, you cannot legislate morality. Hell, I'm not sure morals have anything to do with drug use. Just legalize and quality control drugs and let the folks who want to use them buy a known product rather than rolling the dice on what they get.

[Dave Grubb]

Here is a source that helps to begin to understand this issue---which is far beyond José with a back pack.

Much of this comes from China and now even India is starting to play in this game.

Mexican transnational criminal organizations (TCOs) significantly influence drug trafficking in the United States and pose the greatest drug trafficking threat, according to the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration's (DEA's) annual National Drug Threat Assessment. Their primary methods of entry are in vehicles at POE. They use everything from cars to trucks. Some does enter through the porous border but it is small in comparison to the large transport options.

For obvious reasons, handing a high value shipment by giving it to José is not a very sustainable business plan.

[Honda]

My understanding is that the border patrol and other entities charged with protecting our border are stretched so thin by the constant bombardments of people trying to enter the country illegally that they can't devote the necessary resources to stop these cartels and drug dealers. Some reports have stated that the amount of fentanyl moving into the us from the south in the last few years has increased 4,000%

[FredK]

It takes two one that wants a product and one that can supply the product. They wouldn't be bring in drugs if there wasn't a need.

I'm with Mike. Get known drugs available here reasonable and lower than the imported stuff and let nature take it's course. Darwin win always win out when brains aren't used.

[Honda]

While the junkies share their part of the responsibility it's still the government's responsibility to protect us from the inflow of drugs as dangerous as fentanyl and many others.

[Truckman]

Excusing the abuse of drugs by admitting the failure of current methods in use to curtail it accomplishes nothing...Enabling the abusers by providing drugs without penalty for their abuse only increases the problem......Ben

[Mike]

While the junkies share their part of the responsibility it's still the government's responsibility to protect us from the inflow of drugs as dangerous as fentanyl and many others.

I'm not sure I agree with that, but I won't argue the point. Just for the heck of it, let's try this approach.

First you have to remove the market. Impossible, you say? I agree. So, how do we limit or change the market to the point that the drug trade is unprofitable to the dealers?

We change the drug laws to allow the licensed and controlled manufacture of drugs of known quality and quantity to make them as "safe" as possible to the end user. We make sure that they are less expensive to the end user than the "unsafe" street drugs. Then, we regulate the distribution of these "safer" drugs. Too difficult or unworkable? Not at all, we've already done it with alcohol, a dangerous substance that according to the CDC kills over 140,000 Americans each year through abuse alone. We have controlled it to the extent that there are no longer gun battles in the streets between criminal gangs selling alcohol and most alcohol is as "safe" as it is going to get. Maybe we could do the same with drugs.

Will we still have drug overdoses? Of course we will. We still have alcohol overdoses and always will. We can't fix stupid. But we can take away most of the market and get rid of most of the traffickers if we make it unprofitable to sell illicit drugs. While we're at it, let's show the traffickers how much we hate them selling there lethal drugs in our country. Let's make it a federal crime to deal drugs without a license, and let's make it really expensive to get caught dealing. The price should be mandatory life in prison doing hard labor without hope of parole. No work, no food. Misbehave, solitary lock down and minimal food. Period. Make it a Constitutional Amendment so the courts can't interfere by calling it cruel or unfair.

[Mike]

Excusing the abuse of drugs by admitting the failure of current methods in use to curtail it accomplishes nothing...Enabling the abusers by providing drugs without penalty for their abuse only increases the problem......Ben

Our attempt to legislate morality by banning the use of alcohol should show that it is not possible to ban the consumption of substances people want to consume. If for no other reason, we cannot afford to build and operate the number of prisons it would take to house the offenders. Hell, we can't keep drugs or alcohol out of the prisons we already have, how do you propose to keep them out of the new prisons?

[Honda]

Mike I agree with your sentiments however fentanyl is a different ball game. You can touch that stuff and die. In fact our police department has instituted a policy that any officer while examining any unknown substance must use gloves and wear a mask. It's that powerful and that deadly. With cocaine in the past some have put just a bit on their tongue and knew it was cocaine crystal meth can be handled relatively safely without protection. Fentanyl is a murderous weapon.

[Mike]

Mike I agree with your sentiments however fentanyl is a different ball game. You can touch that stuff and die. In fact our police department has instituted a policy that any officer while examining any unknown substance must use gloves and wear a mask. It's that powerful and that deadly. With cocaine in the past some have put just a bit on their tongue and knew it was cocaine crystal meth can be handled relatively safely without protection. Fentanyl is a murderous weapon.

You are right, it is seriously deadly. How do you propose to stop it? I don't see it happening.

[Truckman]

Hell, we can't keep drugs or alcohol out of the prisons we already have, how do you propose to keep them out of the new prisons?

I didn't offer a solution when I wrote above, but if I did it would not include long term prison stays......Ben

[Honda]

You are right, it is seriously deadly. How do you propose to stop it? I don't see it happening.

Well first fentanyl has some very good therapeutic value when used by medical professionals to treat patients. I agree the cat seems to be out of the bag as far as it coming in illegally. But to your question you have to find the sources of fentanyl which appear to be China Mexico and India. Then you have to work with their governments to make sure fentanyl is treated differently than other base compounds. Sort of like an 18-wheeler that is carrying explosives. They are much more highly regulated. You have to pressure those countries to certify and make certifications as to where the base compounds are going. If they don't cooperate you have to sanction them. As far as Mexico goes it appears most of the stuff they are making is clearly intended for the illicit drug business. You have to work with Mexico and provide them with resources to stop that or at least abate it like we have in the past regarding cocaine. Will we ever totally stop it, probably not but I believe that we can stem the inflow. Like I said before fentanyl is a different ball game. Traffickers and those in possession of fentanyl should face enhanced sentencing. Congress needs to act on act on that immediately. And finally we need more border security especially our border with Mexico. We need to provide those resources now since our border police sources are completely overwhelmed by the current open border policy. At least that would be a start. This is not marijuana this is not crystal meth this is not cocaine. Like I stated before once again it's a murderous dangerous chemical.

[Mike]

What you say makes a lot of sense. But, we've been doing those things for decades (not sure about sanctions) trying to stop the flow of other drugs. It hasn't worked in the past and I don't see it working any better for Fentanyl. At some point the other countries are going to get fed up with our demands and refuse cooperate.

[Mike]

I didn't offer a solution when I wrote above, but if I did it would not include long term prison stays......Ben

A frightening number of people feel the same way about selling, possessing and using firearms. I know neither you nor I agree with them. Whose version of morality is right? Who gets to choose?

I wish there was a simple switch to throw that would magically make these drugs safe to use because people are too stupid to stop using them. I think it is a pipe dream (pun intended) to think we can stop drug smugglers and everything we've done so far has failed. I think it is time to try a new approach. People will still die, but they are going to try different substances, like inhalants that will kill them just as easily.