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Thread: Ukrainian counteroffensive

  1. #1
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    Ukrainian counteroffensive

    The Ukrainians seem to be making progress in the northeast:

    In its first response to the gains made by Ukrainian forces in the last few days, the Russian Defense Ministry has said that “the decision was made to regroup Russian troops in the areas of Balakleya and Izyum and redirect their efforts in the Donetsk direction.”

    The ministry said in a series of statements Saturday: “The operation to liberate Donbas included a number of diversionary and demonstration actions marking the actual troop activities,” and claimed that Russian forces had “destroyed more than two thousand Ukrainian and foreign combatants, including well over 100 armored vehicles and artillery in three days.”

    The ministry said the “Russian Federation’s forces were reduced and redeployed to the DNR [Donetsk People’s Republic] over three days,” and had “opened heavy fire on the enemy in order to prevent incurring losses.”

    The ministry did not acknowledge any retreat from Kharkiv, suggesting instead a planned redeployment.

    Earlier Saturday, the ministry briefing displayed a map of territorial control in Ukraine showing that Kupiansk and Izium were still in Russian hands. Neither city is any longer held by Russian forces.
    Ah. A "planned regroup", not "getting our asses kicked".

    In June, 1862, George McClellan got his ass handed to him along the Chickahominy during the Peninsula Campaign. He retreated but refused to use that word, preferring to say he "changed base". The Confederates knew a whupping when they saw it and joked:

    Henceforth when a scoundrel is kicked out of doors,
    He need not resent the disgrace,
    But cry: “My dear sir, I’m eternally yours,
    For your kindness in changing my base.”

    Let us hope Russia changes base all the way out of Ukraine in the near future.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
    Let us hope Russia changes base all the way out of Ukraine in the near future.
    All the way to Putin's front door where he can explain why he thought it prudent to waste his nation's lives and resources to gain a legacy of lasting shame......Ben
    The future is forged on the anvil of history...The interpreter of history wields the hammer... - Unknown author...

  3. #3
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    I have been reading of the Ukrainian advances with guarded optimism---and offering lots of prayers.

    As for General McClellan----I have little good to say about the gentleman. He is credited to being the designer of the standard issue cavalry saddle---appropriately named the McClellan saddle. It was a hateful device for both man and beast, made of a wooden frame with leather stretched over it. At least the "beast" got a blanket to mitigate the pain

    As a kid they were surplus most everywhere and cost but a few dollars

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    Eventually, I advanced to a forward seat saddle but my butt and legs will always remember the insults of the torture that cursed device brought to me. Had I been in the cavalry and forced to sit on that day after day, I would have been working on a transfer to the infantry---for surely they were something to make walking a pleasure
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

  4. #4
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    Advances by the Ukrainian forces from today's NYT:

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    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

  5. #5
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    Reports now indicate Putin is under strong political pressure in Russia. It reminds me of how our government officials were pressured over Vietnam.

    I still remember seeing a photo of LBJ which showed him listening to his Son In Law who was in Vietnam. It is a photo of a man in despair and emotional pain.

    Hunter
    I don't care if it hurts. I want to have control. I want a perfect body. I want a perfect soul. - Creep by Radiohead

  6. #6
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    My reading does not indicate that Putin is under pressure at home. After initial unrest things have settled down to the point that in Moscow the war is being ignored.
    Who knows where reality lies.

    Added in edit:

    Regarding Putin's health, I have to question those stories. He recently was at an event in Vladivostok on the east coast----nearly 6,000 miles from Moscow.
    Last edited by Dave Grubb; 09-11-2022 at 06:45 AM.
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

  7. #7
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    This morning's papers are announcing a change is happening with the recent advances of the Ukrainian forces in the east. This is taken from one of two articles in this morning's NYT:

    As Russian forces hastily retreated in northeastern Ukraine on Saturday in one of their most embarrassing setbacks of the war, President Vladimir V. Putin was at a park in Moscow, presiding over the grand opening of a Ferris wheel.

    “It’s very important for people to be able to relax with friends and family,” Mr. Putin intoned.

    The split-screen contrast was stunning, even for some of Mr. Putin’s loudest backers. And it underscored a growing rift between the Kremlin and the invasion’s most fervent cheerleaders. For the cheerleaders, Russia’s retreat appeared to confirm their worst fears: that senior Russian officials were so concerned with maintaining a business-as-usual atmosphere back home that they had failed to commit the necessary equipment and personnel to fight a long war against a determined enemy.

    “You’re throwing a billion-ruble party,” one pro-Russian blogger wrote in a widely circulated post on Saturday, referring to the Putin-led celebrations in Moscow commemorating the 875th anniversary of the city’s founding. “What is wrong with you? Not at the time of such a horrible failure.”
    And this from this morning's WSJ:

    ZAPORIZHZHIA, Ukraine—Explosions shake the southern Ukrainian city of Kherson throughout the day. Internet, electricity and water are sporadic. Prices for basic goods, such as food and soap, are skyrocketing. Hundreds of cars are lined up trying to leave the city. By 4 p.m., the streets are empty.

    Ukraine has launched a military offensive aimed at retaking Kherson and upending a key goal of Vladimir Putin’s war: eliminating independent Ukrainian identity. How that liberation effort plays out is a test case for Russia’s efforts to mold the territory and its people in its own image. As Ukraine recaptures territory this weekend in a lightning offensive in the country’s northeastern Kharkiv region, residents of Kherson are trying to hang on, waiting for their army to arrive and doing what they can to resist Russification.

    “We realize dangerous times are coming,” said Serhiy Ivaschenko, the head of a district in the city who has been going back and forth between Kherson and Ukrainian-held territory. “But it’s the only way to be liberated.”

    Two weeks ago, Ukrainian troops began pushing southeast toward the Dnipro River, after weeks of airstrikes on bridges, as well as ammunition depots and command posts. Their aim is to deprive Russian troops of supplies and squeeze them out of Kherson, located on the Dnipro’s west bank.
    May "David" slay Putin
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

  8. #8
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    American news presenters are saying the current Ukrainian offensive was planned using information from American counter-intelligence operations. In particular, Ukrainian commanders are using photos from American spy satellites to target Russian forces.

    I am proud that our government is assisting Ukraine with information and millions of dollars.

    Hunter
    I don't care if it hurts. I want to have control. I want a perfect body. I want a perfect soul. - Creep by Radiohead

  9. #9
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    Today's map:

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    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

  10. #10
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    I read that one part of the success was essentially a big disinformation campaign, where all the talk was about a southern offensive, causing the Russians to shift forces and opening up the opportunity in the north. If true, then Putin as the master of disinformation was given his just desserts.

    I can only hope that this means a breakthrough that will end this war, with the Russians back across the border and Crimea back with Ukraine, and that my family can start rebuilding their country.

  11. #11
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    Man, I was thinking we were on the way to the resolution of the Ukraine war. But, as Dave reported in another thread, all the pro-kremlin candidates performed (suspiciously) well in their elections.

    Hunter
    I don't care if it hurts. I want to have control. I want a perfect body. I want a perfect soul. - Creep by Radiohead

  12. #12
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    This from my morning readings:

    While this will not end the crisis, it has put Russia on the defensive and turned the war in Ukraine’s favor. Noting that Russian soldiers abandoned their equipment and fled, Europe specialist Anne Applebaum noted that “[t]he fundamental difference between Ukrainian soldiers, who are fighting for their country’s existence, and Russian soldiers, who are fighting for their salary, has finally begun to matter.”
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

  13. #13
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    ....and now this:

    More than 40 local elected officials across Russia signed a two-sentence petition demanding Putin resign, and a senior member of Parliament from Putin’s party said the retreat had done “very serious damage” to the operation.
    My best advice to those petitioners-----don't go above the ground floor
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Grubb View Post
    My best advice to those petitioners-----don't go above the ground floor
    And maybe apply for a grant from the Phillbo Foundation......Ben
    The future is forged on the anvil of history...The interpreter of history wields the hammer... - Unknown author...

  15. #15
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    Update in today's NYT:

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    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

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