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Thread: I regard tonight as important not only to me but to the entire country

  1. #1
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    I regard tonight as important not only to me but to the entire country

    What happened on January 6th was not a “dust-up.” It was an attempt to overturn our democracy and install as president someone who had lost the popular vote and the Electoral College, upending the Constitution that is the law of our land.
    As a report from the Brookings Institution put it: “President Joe Biden legitimately won a fair and secure 2020 presidential election—and Donald Trump lost. This historical fact has been uncontroverted by any evidence since at least November 7, 2020, when major news outlets projected Biden’s victory. But Trump never conceded. Instead, both before and after Election Day, he tried to delegitimize the election results by disseminating a series of far-fetched and evidence-free claims of fraud. Meanwhile, with a ring of close confidants, Trump conceived and implemented unprecedented schemes to—in his own words—“overturn” the election outcome. Among the results of this “Big Lie” campaign were the terrible events of January 6, 2021—an inflection point in what we now understand was nothing less than an attempted coup.”
    Part of the crisis in which we find ourselves today is that many people don’t understand what is at stake in the hearings, in part because commentators have turned the attempt of Trump and his supporters to overturn our democracy into a mud-wrestling fight between Democrats and Republicans rather than showing it as an existential fight for rule of law. Today in his Presswatchers publication, Dan Froomkin explored how U.S. news organizations have failed to communicate to readers that we are on a knife edge between democracy and authoritarianism.
    Froomkin notes that journalists have framed the January 6 hearings as a test for the Democrats or as a waste of time because they will not change anyone’s mind or perhaps because no one cares. He begged journalists not to downplay the hearings and present them as a horse race, but to frame the events of January 6 in the larger context of Republican attempts to overturn our democracy.
    Tomorrow night, the House Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the U.S. Capitol will hold its first hearing to explain to the American people what happened at the end of the Trump administration. The hearings will be broadcast on C-SPAN, ABC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, NBC, PBS, and the Fox Business Channel and streamed on the YouTube channel of the House Select Committee on June 9, 13, 15, 16, 21, and 23.
    I have nothing more important than to listen to these proceedings---I refuse to allow some journalist to interpret these for me.

    Dust-up hell
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

  2. #2
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    I'd like too, but am afraid i'll be buried in some comedy movie instead. Taking 2 plus years is just draging the s out for me as I suspect most folks.
    Fred

    "Everyday I beat my own previous record for number of consecutive days I've
    stayed alive."

    'Take care of yourself, and each other.'

  3. #3
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    If I had any inkling that the committee was doing this for a noble reason instead of political grandstanding I would be more interested. The department of Justice is entirely capable of prosecuting culpable individuals.
    OPINION....a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

  4. #4
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    Yes sir----the rinos have worked hard at repackaging this as political rather than an attack on our Government and Constitution. Feed the sheeple what makes them feel good and they will follow
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Grubb View Post
    Yes sir----the rinos have worked hard at repackaging this as political rather than an attack on our Government and Constitution. Feed the sheeple what makes them feel good and they will follow

    It is what it is and that's not going to change. Pelosi made her intent very clear when she refused to place the member of the House as recommended by the minority leader on the committee.
    OPINION....a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

  6. #6
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    Are you serious?
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

  7. #7
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    I will watch with an open mind. Allow me to state that I believe the election was not held in accordance with rules existing at the time. Late , unsigned ballots and questionable machines do not give me a warm fuzzy feeling . People were seen putting many ballots into boxes multiple times.
    All of the above being said , entering the Capitol while the votes were being counted WAS WRONG .Also , keeping important information and videos from the public is Wrong ., Cop shooting and killing an unarmed 1110 lb. female WAS WRONG .

    Keeping people locked up with no chance for lawyer contact is 
WRONG.

    There is wrong on both sides . I: have the opinion that the inquisition now in progress is political in nature . I also believe it will take CONCRETE EVIDENCE to prove to me that aside from Trump asking the V P to not certify the vote [ which did not happen ] there is little to be found other than trespassing . That in and of itself as I said was wrong but , does it deserve over a year in prison ?. I think not.
    Individual rights are protected only as long as they don't conflict with the desires of the state .

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Independent Voter View Post
    ...there is little to be found other than trespassing . That in and of itself as I said was wrong but , does it deserve over a year in prison ?. I think not.
    Intent plays a large part in determining the degree of culpability......Ben
    The future is forged on the anvil of history...The interpreter of history wields the hammer... - Unknown author...

  9. #9
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    There is so much wrong, in my opinion, with several posts here.

    1) The idea that the committee, because of how it was formed, cannot possibly come to a true conclusion. That is an ad hominem argument, which is illogical on its face. An argument stands or falls on its own merits, not the virtues or lack thereof of the person making the argument. Someone might be wrong because of what they say but not because of who they are.

    2) No one has ever verified the claims of ballot stuffing or violations of the law to the point where it made any difference in the outcome. After the election, there were many such claims. They didn't pan out and now serve only to give election deniers cover for grousing.

    3) Trump did indeed ask Pence not to certify the vote. The idea that he did not is factually incorrect, as will be seen. There are multiple people who can testify to that effect.

    4) I did not see people merely walking where they should not have been on January 6. I saw a pitched riot. That film will shown, I'm sure. Downplaying what happened is not right. It was a lot more than trespass.

    5) A coordinated plan ahead of time to disrupt the vote is not trespass. It is sedition. People involved have been charged with that, appropriately.

    6) I wish that no one had died in the riot but **** happens when you choose to storm the barricades.

    I'm interested in seeing all the stuff we've heard about collected into a coherent narrative. I know the basics - how an attempt to use the courts to stop Biden from becoming President did not work morphed into a crackpot scheme to use state legislatures to try to overturn their state's vote, which also did not work, to a plot to use the January 6 ceremony to try to keep Trump in power. I know that there was a concerted effort by a cult of people to use any lever of power they could to put pressure on the system, from state elections staff to installing bootlickers at Justice, from crackpot lawyers to whipping up a riot, all to keep one man in power and I am absolutely furious that this happened and flabbergasted at attempts to downplay its importance.

    From my perspective, what I will watch for is whether the committee is asking anyone to believe them or whether they will be relying on the testimony of witnesses. When they follow the money, where did it lead? When they dug for e-mails to document interactions, who was saying what and to whom? All this will show me whether the committee is asking me to believe them on a faith basis or an evidentiary basis.

    And if they have the evidence to back up their claims, then I think it is reasonable to draw a conclusion.

    A man asked Joe Stalin the time and Stalin said "3 PM". Is Stalin wrong because he is Joe Stalin, a mass murderer? Nope. It depends on whether it is actually 3 PM or not.

  10. #10
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    I just see it as a sh!t show to divert attention away from the current administrations failures..... Gilligan's Island reruns are more entertaining....

  11. #11
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    That's astounding, Phillbo. This is an event that will be written about for as long as our nation exists. A coup attempt involving many people culminated in an attack on our Capitol and you dismiss it all as a smokescreen for the present administration's troubles? So if things were hunky dory, we wouldn't be having these hearings into a riot designed to overturn an election?

    I know you like to cultivate the image of laid back, seen-it-all ennui but you might want to reconsider that this time.

  12. #12
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    Little to be found other than trespassing? Really? It was an attempt to overthrow our government. It was sedition. I'm for giving them a fair trial then lining them up on the mall in front of a firing squad.
    The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible - Arthur C. Clarke

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Grubb View Post
    Are you serious?
    Very serious. I have no faith whatsoever that any committee in Congress can do anything but be partisan. The issue that they are investigating is extremely important. Shouldn't be used for politics. As I said before the doj is well equipped to bring the perpetrators to Justice. This committee can't bring anybody to Justice only the doj can do that. It's political theater. They could have just compiled what they found into a report and filed it into the legislative record. But hey each his own enjoy the show.
    OPINION....a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

  14. #14
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    Sedition is the word I'll focus on here. Because that's what matters when our Constitution and our country are threatened.

    Personally, I did not care for Mike Pence. That changed when he stood up for our nation that day (and night) on the hill. And, he did so while his personal safety was endangered.

    Hunter
    I don't care if it hurts. I want to have control. I want a perfect body. I want a perfect soul. - Creep by Radiohead

  15. #15
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    Fifty minutes into this I am turned off by Liz Cheney. She appears to be attempting to sell her position rather than just presenting the facts. I happen to believe that there was an attempted coup and an insurrection, but Liz Cheney's presentation looks more like a personal vendetta than fact.

    I hope the rest goes better.
    The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible - Arthur C. Clarke

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