"We must not humiliate Russia"

[Kevin]

From the NYTimes:

KRAMATORSK, Ukraine — As Ukrainian troops tried to claw back territory and stave off a blistering Russian assault along the country’s embattled eastern front, the government on Saturday sought also to repel a demand earlier in the day by President Emmanuel Macron of France that Moscow not be humiliated to improve chances of reaching a diplomatic solution.

“We must not humiliate Russia so that the day when the fighting stops we can build an exit ramp through diplomatic means,” Mr. Macron, who has sought to position himself as the world’s chief negotiator with the Kremlin, said in an interview with French newspapers. “I am convinced that it is France’s role to be a mediating power.”

Ukraine’s foreign minister, Dmytro Kuleba, responded with a scathing post on social media.

“Calls to avoid humiliation of Russia can only humiliate France and every other country that would call for it,” Mr. Kuleba wrote. Instead, he argued, peace and the saving of lives could best be achieved by Russia being “put in its place.”

OK, so the Russians destroy entire regions of the country. Major cities that look like Germany at the end of WWII. They commit atrocities such as rape, mass murder, forced deportations, separation of families. They create 7 million refugees, some of which are being cared for right now by my own relatives in Zakarpatiyya. They've destroyed the economy and it will likely take an entire generation to recover.

But for God's sake, let's not humiliate them, they might not want to sit down and negotiate a peace. They invade, cause all this devastation and we need to cater to their national ego?

Eff 'em.

[Scooter]

I think the only way they will be willing to negotiate peace is if they are humiliated and have to take a position of weakness. Putin has too big an ego to back down voluntarily, and wants to prove himself a military genius, and will sacrifice his whole country to do it. It will get worse before it gets better.

[Mike]

......It will get worse before it gets better.

I'm convinced it will never get better unless Putin is removed by whatever means necessary. If he remains in command nukes will fly before he admits defeat.

[Honda]

Oh the French........

[mgrist]

It's a screwed up mess, do we get another Stalin, Lenin? When will the people open their eyes but when they fight back they are shipped by the thousands into Siberia. I think Mikes right on the nukes, he'd rather die a president rah rah rah then be a civilian. It's obvious he's not sane or stable or that any other Russian leader has ever been. Kind of like this madness with our politicians. How do we stop the madness there and here. Maybe not even stop it just agree that we need fixing and develop a plan. I think it's good that we don't have a merciful God, we'd all be dead.

[Truckman]

Oh the French........

Hoist the white battle flag!...Backwards, march!!......Ben

[Dave Grubb]

In an essay for Foreign Affairs this week, Samuel Charap examines a novel solution to Russia’s war in Ukraine. “Kyiv would renounce its ambitions to join NATO and embrace permanent neutrality,” he writes, “in return for receiving security guarantees from both its Western partners and from Russia.” In an age of renewed alliances and great-power conflict, neutrality may seem counterintuitive. But the idea has endured for centuries as an option for states threatened by more powerful neighbors.

An option

[Dave Grubb]

History tells us that the Treaty of Versailles did a fantastic job in humiliating the Germans.