14 little souls and one dear teacher

[Dave Grubb]

I can't help but believe, that with all of these tragedies and all the digging into backgrounds and activities of the perpetrators some common causative thread would not have emerged.
I do not believe that has happened. What is obvious, when we look at the frequency of these tragedies in the US compared to the rest of the world is the unhindered access to guns.

[Mike]

.......I do not believe that has happened. What is obvious, when we look at the frequency of these tragedies in the US compared to the rest of the world is the unhindered access to guns.

I cannot understand why people are so quick to blame an inanimate object for the criminal acts of humans. Blaming the gun is no different than blaming the automobile for deaths caused by drunk drivers. It is the criminal act of human drunk drivers that cause the deaths yet we never hear of banning alcohol or automobiles.

[Dave Grubb]

A summary history of the NRA----an organization that I will resign from my life membership.

Today’s insistence that the Second Amendment gives individuals a broad right to own guns comes from two places.
One is the establishment of the National Rifle Association in New York in 1871, in part to improve the marksmanship skills of American citizens who might be called on to fight in another war, and in part to promote in America the British sport of elite shooting, complete with hefty cash prizes in newly organized tournaments. Just a decade after the Civil War, veterans jumped at the chance to hone their former skills. Rifle clubs sprang up across the nation.
By the 1920s, rifle shooting was a popular American sport. “Riflemen” competed in the Olympics, in colleges, and in local, state, and national tournaments organized by the NRA. Being a good marksman was a source of pride, mentioned in public biographies, like being a good golfer. In 1925, when the secretary of the NRA apparently took money from ammunition and arms manufacturers, the organization tossed him out and sued him.
NRA officers insisted on the right of citizens to own rifles and handguns but worked hard to distinguish between law-abiding citizens who should have access to guns for hunting and target shooting and protection, and criminals and mentally ill people, who should not. In 1931, amid fears of bootlegger gangs, the NRA backed federal legislation to limit concealed weapons; prevent possession by criminals, the mentally ill and children; to require all dealers to be licensed; and to require background checks before delivery. It backed the 1934 National Firearms Act, and parts of the 1968 Gun Control Act, designed to stop what seemed to be America’s hurtle toward violence in that turbulent decade.
But in the mid-1970s, a faction in the NRA forced the organization away from sports and toward opposing “gun control.” It formed a political action committee (PAC) in 1975, and two years later it elected an organization president who abandoned sporting culture and focused instead on “gun rights.”
This was the second thing that led us to where we are today: leaders of the NRA embraced the politics of Movement Conservatism, the political movement that rose to combat the business regulations and social welfare programs that both Democrats and Republicans embraced after World War II. Movement Conservatives embraced the myth of the American cowboy as a white man standing against the “socialism” of the federal government as it sought to level the economic playing field between Black Americans and their white neighbors. Leaders like Arizona Senator Barry Goldwater personified the American cowboy, with his cowboy hat and opposition to government regulation, while television Westerns showed good guys putting down bad guys without the interference of the government.
In 1972, the Republican platform had called for gun control to restrict the sale of “cheap handguns,” but in 1975, as he geared up to challenge President Gerald R. Ford for the 1976 presidential nomination, Movement Conservative hero Ronald Reagan took a stand against gun control. In 1980, the Republican platform opposed the federal registration of firearms, and the NRA endorsed a presidential candidate—Reagan—for the first time.
When President Reagan took office, a new American era, dominated by Movement Conservatives, began. And the power of the NRA over American politics grew.
In 1981 a gunman trying to kill Reagan shot and paralyzed his press secretary, James Brady, and wounded Secret Service agent Tim McCarthy and police officer Thomas Delahanty. After the shooting, then-representative Charles Schumer (D-NY) introduced legislation that became known as the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act, or the Brady Bill, to require background checks before gun purchases. Reagan, who was a member of the NRA, endorsed the bill, but the NRA spent millions of dollars to defeat it.
After the Brady Bill passed in 1993, the NRA paid for lawsuits in nine states to strike it down. Until 1959, every single legal article on the Second Amendment concluded that it was not intended to guarantee individuals the right to own a gun. But in the 1970s, legal scholars funded by the NRA had begun to argue that the Second Amendment did exactly that.
In 1997, when the Brady Bill cases came before the Supreme Court as Printz v. United States, the Supreme Court declared parts of the measure unconstitutional.
Now a player in national politics, the NRA was awash in money from gun and ammunition manufacturers. By 2000 it was one of the three most powerful lobbies in Washington. It spent more than $40 million on the 2008 election. In that year, the landmark Supreme Court decision of District of Columbia v. Heller struck down gun regulations and declared that the Second Amendment protects an individual’s right to keep and bear arms.
Increasingly, NRA money backed Republican candidates. In 2012 the NRA spent $9 million in the presidential election, and in 2014 it spent $13 million. Then, in 2016, it spent over $50 million on Republican candidates, including more than $30 million on Trump’s effort to win the White House. This money was vital to Trump, since many other Republican super PACs refused to back him. The NRA spent more money on Trump than any other outside group, including the leading Trump super PAC, which spent $20.3 million.
The unfettered right to own and carry weapons has come to symbolize the Republican Party’s ideology of individual liberty. Lawmakers and activists have not been able to overcome Republican insistence on gun rights despite the mass shootings that have risen since their new emphasis on guns. Even though 90% of Americans—including nearly 74% of NRA members—support background checks, Republicans have killed such legislation by filibustering it.

[Dave Grubb]

I cannot understand why people are so quick to blame an inanimate object for the criminal acts of humans. Blaming the gun is no different than blaming the automobile for deaths caused by drunk drivers. It is the criminal act of human drunk drivers that cause the deaths yet we never hear of banning alcohol or automobiles.

There is a distinct difference in your analogy Mike. The drunk in that event is passive . There is no forethought that says "I'm going out to kill". Our legal system acknowledges that difference in the severity of the charges.

[Mike]

There is a distinct difference in your analogy Mike. The drunk in that event is passive . There is no forethought that says "I'm going out to kill". Our legal system acknowledges that difference in the severity of the charges.

Good point, Dave.

However, it is still not the gun that is at fault - it is a deranged human.

[Dave Grubb]

Good point, Dave.

However, it is still not the gun that is at fault - it is a deranged human.

I don't argue that fact but we do nothing to stop the deranged human from acting on their sickness.

There are more holes to plug than the gun aspect. Currently we are unable to do squat about a deranged human until they act out on that sickness---we are standing there (as a society) daring them to take their best shot (pun intended)

Going back to your analogy: The police have every right to stop a drunk driver and take them off the road-----the deranged mind, with evil intent, driving legally with a car full of guns is protected under our laws and the police can't even stop him without cause.

[Phillbo]

I may be a bit off but I lay the blame on this bull**** on parents not being able to wack the **** out of the little bastards when they acted out as kids. They have to know there are consequences to actions. Flunk them for not performing in class, Screw the Oh but it might hurt their self esteem. These snowflakes can't handle it when stuff doesn't go their way. They need to learn to suck it up, life is hard, deal with it. We did

I disagree... He was an adult. Not the parents fault.

[Dave Grubb]

I believe "red flag laws" are part of a multifaceted approach that could have positive results.

[Dave Grubb]

I disagree... He was an adult. Not the parents fault.

I don't believe it is possible to beat the evil out of anyone.

[Truckman]

However, it is still not the gun that is at fault - it is a deranged human.

My thoughts exactly...When I see arguments that address the culprit and not the choice of tool, I may rejoin the discussion...If an actual discussion exists......Ben

[Dave Grubb]

My thoughts exactly...When I see arguments that address the culprit and not the choice of tool, I may rejoin the discussion...If an actual discussion exists......Ben

You are missing that part of this discussion Ben.

Please read my post on "Red Flag Laws" above.

[Truckman]

You are missing that part of this discussion Ben.

Please read my post on "Red Flag Laws" above.

I did, Dave...Such laws exist right now, and my oldest friend here in Montgomery County is employed by the county to serve such warrants and transport the subjects to a facility for psychiatric evaluation...This has been his duty assignment for about four years and he is very good at it...So good in fact, they he trains others for similar duty...In that time, there have been no mass killings committed by anyone he has dealt with...

Is his effectiveness in implementing the spirit and intent of the law responsible for the absence of Montgomery County mass shootings?...The argument could be made either way, but proving a negative (an impossible task) would be necessary...I'll listen to any alternative which does not involve the enactment of further useless restrictions on the lawful possession of firearms......Ben

[Phillbo]

Why is it that when an event like this happens the first person to be interviewed is a politician? I could care less what any politician has to say about this. Interview law enforcement.

[Ferraridriver]

I agree with Dave about the "Red Flag Laws"

In this case there was a very significant red flag exhibited prior to the event. A week before, on his eighteenth birthday he bought TWO Daniel Defense AR-15's and 350 rounds of ammo from an online dealer located in Georgia.

I also agree with Kevin about the easy access to these types of guns. In my opinion there is no need for semi-automatic assault type guns to be available to the public.

This guy purchase of two AR15s and 350 rounds of ammo online from a dealer in Georgia for delivery/pick-up locally was completely legal under current law.

This needs to change.

[Honda]

I believe "red flag laws" are part of a multifaceted approach that could have positive results.

New York has red flag laws and they missed it regarding the Buffalo shooter.