Our members have actualized and summarized U.S. firearm usage well. Kudos. Frankly, if our legislators were required to know the basics discussed herein, we'd see changes in our system and society.
Hunter
Charter Member
Our members have actualized and summarized U.S. firearm usage well. Kudos. Frankly, if our legislators were required to know the basics discussed herein, we'd see changes in our system and society.
Hunter
I don't care if it hurts. I want to have control. I want a perfect body. I want a perfect soul. - Creep by Radiohead
Charter Member
It appears now that the police have been lying from the very beginning about their actions (or more correctly inaction) in this tragedy.
There was no armed security guard in the school and the police that responded stood outside until a SWAT team from the U.S. Border Patrol showed an hour after this began.
Frankly, I don't know what to call this other than reprehensible.
Last edited by Dave Grubb; 05-27-2022 at 08:30 AM.
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
"Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
“You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis
Registered Member
Cowards! Anyone standing around while these people were dying should be criminally charged for failure to do their sworn duty. It is legally called misprison of a felony.
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible - Arthur C. Clarke
Charter Member
They could have gotten killed!
I'm at a loss for wordsPolice spokespeople told reporters that a school district police officer confronted the shooter outside the building before he barricaded himself in a classroom, killing 19 and wounding 22 others in his rampage.
But as more details are emerging today, they are undermining the myth itself.
Robb Elementary School, where the murders took place, had already been “hardened” with the town investing more than $650,000 in security enhancements, but the shooter apparently entered through an unlocked door. The Uvalde police department consumes 40% of the town’s budget and has its own Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) unit. And yet, the stories that are emerging from Uvalde suggest that the shooter fired shots outside the school for 12 minutes before entering it and that he was not, in fact, confronted outside. Police officers arrived at the same time he entered the school, but they did not go in until after he had been in the building for four minutes. Seven officers then entered, but the lone gunman apparently drove them out with gunfire, and they stayed outside, holding back frantic parents, until Border Patrol tactical officers arrived a full hour later.
Parents tried to get the police to go in but instead found themselves under attack for interfering with an investigation. One man was thrown to the ground and pepper sprayed. U.S. Marshals arrested and handcuffed Angeli Rose Gomez, whose children were in the school and who had had time to drive 40 miles to get to them, for interfering as she demanded they do something. Gomez got local officers she knew to talk the Marshals into releasing her. Then she jumped the school fence, ran in, grabbed her two kids, and ran out.
A Texas Department of Safety official told CNN’s Wolf Blitzer tonight that the law enforcement officers at the school were reluctant to engage the gunman because “they could’ve been shot, they could’ve been killed.”
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
"Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
“You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis
Charter Member
And then there is teddy cruz
AH extraordinaire
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
"Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
“You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis
Registered Member
I'm sure much more testimony and eyewitness accounts are forthcoming, but in the meantime I'm right there with you, Dave...Originally Posted by Dave Grubb
I'm at a loss for words...Ben
The future is forged on the anvil of history...The interpreter of history wields the hammer... - Unknown author...
Charter Member
Where does it end?
I pray for them.There are still many, many questions about what happened in Uvalde, but it seems clear that the heroes protecting the children were not the guys with guns, but the moms and the dads and the two female teachers who died trying to protect their students: Eva Mireles and Irma Garcia. News reports today say that Garcia’s husband, Joseph, died this morning of a heart attack, leaving four children.
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
"Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
“You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis
Registered Member
Every law enforcement person I have seen in the last few years is wearing a vest. IF , IF those law people were wearing and then waited around for 45 min. for more protection while children were being shot , there needs to be an investigation into their actions.
Perhaps we need to fund iron man suits for law enforcement so they can do what they were hired to do. Serve and PROTECT.
Individual rights are protected only as long as they don't conflict with the desires of the state .
Registered Member
I can tell you that standard police soft body armor will not stop .223/5.56 bullets. I have a lot of experience both wearing and volume purchasing police body armor. I have a vest behind the back seat of my truck and it will not stop much of anything beyond most handgun rounds.
Whether or not they were equipped with body armor, adequate or not, they were obligated by law to take action to stop the killing as quickly as possible. And yes, even if it meant walking into danger that could result in their death. That's what they signed up for, that's what they swore an oath to do and that's what they get paid for.
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible - Arthur C. Clarke
Registered Member
The directer of Texas DPS has just announced that the decision to wait before making entry to the school was wrong.
"It was not the right decision. It was the wrong decision. Period ... We believe there should have been an entry. We don't have time," Steve McCraw, director of the Texas Department of Public Safety, said during a press conference Friday.
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible - Arthur C. Clarke
Charter Member
There was one of these school shooting a few years ago that resulted in a number of recommendations, one of which was to enter as quickly as possible which is the most effective way of ending the continuing murder of the hostages.
I see if I can find where that came out.
This is not what I was looking for but it does prove the thinking of immediate intrusion:
What you should expect from responding law enforcement to an active shooter
Police are trained to proceed as quickly as possible to the sound of the gunfire; their purpose is to stop the shooter(s).
Officers may be in plainclothes, patrol uniforms or SWAT Uniforms armed with long rifles, shotguns and handguns.
Do as the officers direct you and keep your hands visible at all times.
If possible, tell the officers where the shooter(s) was last seen and a description of the shooter(s).
Also be aware that the first responding police officers will not stop to assist injured people. Others will follow to treat the injured. First responding officers are trained to proceed as quickly as possible to the gunfire and to stop the shooter(s).
Keep in mind that once you are in a safe location, the entire scene is a crime scene. The police usually will not let anyone leave until the situation is completely under control. Police may ask for your statement of what you heard and observed. Please cooperate with the police.
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
"Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
“You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis
Charter Member
We had the Trolley Square Shooting in 2007. A gunman killed five bystanders and wounded four others before being shot dead by several members of the Salt Lake City Police Department.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_Square_shooting
My guess is every Police Officer within close proximity to the current shooting is questioning his/her response. I'm thinking the Press may attempt to eat them alive through accusations. And, they'll probably get threats to thier lives as well. May our God and our society have mercy on them.
Hunter
I don't care if it hurts. I want to have control. I want a perfect body. I want a perfect soul. - Creep by Radiohead
Charter Member
This was one of those points in life where you have to make a choice. Choose the right path and good things follow. You sleep well, you are respected, you stand before your Maker with the book open and He says "Good job". Choose the wrong path and you never ever stop wishing you could go back and have a do-over.
Knowing what these officers have ahead of them, I can have empathy. They didn't set out to harm anyone. They made the wrong call and they will live with the fact that 21 people died as a result. It will be hard. And perhaps it should be, but I still feel for them.
Charter Member
I think the 21 were already dead before they even got on site.....
Registered Member
The police body armor issues should weigh heavily on decisions to redefine and redraw the line for easy, minimally restricted weapons acquisition.
The police were so afraid of the assault rifle they waited for the Border Patrol Swat team, and during the wait no one knew that or if the gunman was finished killing.. or if the wounded could be saved.
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