14 little souls and one dear teacher

[Sandman]

I fully support the private ownership of guns. I also believe it is entirely too easy to obtain guns.

IMHO we need to start by updating current laws.. at the present time owning of certain weapons is closely regulated. Machine guns for example, require special, specific steps to be taken before they may be possessed. We need to redefine the line that includes the machine guns to also include weapons of war (example, assault rifles and large magazines).

The law is there, we just need to update it.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong..

[Mike]

IMHO we need to start by updating current laws.. at the present time owning of certain weapons is closely regulated. Machine guns for example, require special, specific steps to be taken before they may be possessed. We need to redefine the line that includes the machine guns to also include weapons of war (example, assault rifles and large magazines).

The law is there, we just need to update it.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong..

Machine guns (NFA weapons) are easy to own, just time consuming. To own one, assuming you can afford the gun, all you have to do is submit fingerprints, ATF form 4 and $200 to ATF and wait for about a year to get your approval and tax stamp. I assume the same process will apply if they decide to ban so-called assault weapons.

[UTAH]

I'm coming on late into this discussion. My apologies, and an explanation about why I no longer participate in Gun Control arguments.

After weighing Constitutional Rights issues with the history of firearms in America, I decided the issue of Gun Control is beyond my control. For me, it's up to our Courts and Legal System to respond to it. Yeah, I know it's a cop-out, but it's a measured and intentional cop-out.

We've seen weapons used by evil people to take out innocent people, who were simply going about their lives. Countering that, there are dire situations where weapons resolved bad situations and/or prevented problems.

I'm not comfortable walking away from this without saying, in my opinion, we have experts working on both sides of this issue pro and con. And, with millions of firearms (literally) out there in our society, it is not an issue that is going quietly away.

But, will this issue be peacefully and satisfactorily resolved? No - I highly doubt it. Ask any person you know, about whether or not Gun Control is an issue in America, and they'll tell you it is. Thus, no matter which way the USA heads with Gun Control, some person or group will have an angry fit about it. It's part of our political and societal mix. I'm staying out of it, which entails me being just as effective, or useless, as I was before.

Hunter

[Truckman]

It's not a weapon until it's used as one...Until then it's just a firearm, or a crescent wrench, or a butcher knife, or an automobile...The lunatic who massacred the school kids used his firearms as weapons...James Fields used his Dodge Challenger as a weapon when he murdered Heather Heyer and injured 35 others in 2017...In neither case did the firearms or the car have any control over the murderers' intentions...The use of the word "weapon" becomes an alarmist technique when it's used by irresponsible politicians and their minions to demonize inanimate objects...Controlling the criminally insane is much more effective than placing blame on their choice of tools......Ben

[TriGuy]

Sidebar point of discussion:

It has been noted that the gunman was confronted by uniformed officers and still managed to force his way in and commit his carnage. If he, an untrained civilian with an AR15 was able to overcome trained officers and enter. How can folks advocate for barely trained teachers having firearms in the classroom as a legitimate deterrence?

[Kevin]

Standard NRA definition for the word "weapon". Unfortunately, it is not the standard lexicographic definition:

an object that can be used to hurt people or damage property, for example a gun, knife, or bomb

Note that there is no requirement that it not be considered a weapon until it is actually used. The potential for use is in the word "can".

James Fields used a Dodge Challenger, true. But since Columbine, over 300,000 students have experienced school shootings. When the weapon of choice for a school massacres becomes an automobile, then your argument will become stronger. As of now, people intent on mayhem are viewing a gun as the best way to inflict a lot of death very quickly. That's a lot different than one person being hit by a car.

And personally, I'd have been happy to see this nut burger try to use a car instead of a gun. I'm willing to bet that barricading yourself inside a school class room would have been a lot tougher if you had to get a Dodge Challenger in there to kill people. Columbine would have had a lower body count if they had prowled the halls of the high school in a Dodge Challenger looking for victims. Heck, even the Jonesboro shooting would have been better for all if the 11 and 13 year old shooters had to use a Dodge Challenger, since they probably would not have been able to reach the pedals.

The criminally insane choose guns for one reason - their lethality. They don't choose Dodge Challengers.

[Kevin]

Sidebar point of discussion:

It has been noted that the gunman was confronted by uniformed officers and still managed to force his way in and commit his carnage. If he, an untrained civilian with an AR15 was able to overcome trained officers and enter. How can folks advocate for barely trained teachers having firearms in the classroom as a legitimate deterrence?

Good question. And why are we expecting teachers to take a bullet? When did that become part of the expectation for employment?

[UTAH]

Yep, ya gotta have the tools for the job at hand.

Case in point: Clyde Barrow
Why did he succeed criminally where others failed. 3 reasons:

He outgunned Law Enforcement with a BAR.
He outdrove Law Enforcement with V8 Fords.
He operated across state lines, limiting the jurisdiction of local Law Enforcement.

Hunter

[Phillbo]

Easy solution... get rid of kids.....

[TriGuy]

this didn't take long

Rep. Paul Gosar, an Arizona Republican, said of the shooter in a since-deleted tweet, “It’s a transsexual leftist illegal alien named Salvatore Ramos.” Gosar has not returned a request for comment.

[Dave Grubb]

I'm hesitant to repeat anything I read about this since there is much conflicting information out there. That said, I read that this guy was what my wife calls a "cutter", someone who self mutilates. That "fact" has come from classmates.

If true, that is a huge "red flag" that might have been missed by the school staff.

As for Grosar---he is what he is He is in office because Bo didn't vote

Added in edit from this morning's WSJ:

Salvador Ramos, the gunman in the Uvalde, Texas, mass shooting, came from a broken family and unsettled classmates and co-workers with sometimes aggressive behavior and disturbing social-media posts, according to people who said they knew him.

“He gave me such an odd vibe,” said Crystal Foutz, a 17-year-old junior who attended Uvalde High School with him and said she knew him through her ex-boyfriend. “He always seemed scary.”

On Wednesday, Texas officials said Ramos, who was killed following a shootout with Border Patrol agents, didn’t have any known or documented mental-health issues, and had no adult arrest record.

If true, those are big red flags that went ignored.

[Dave Grubb]

I offer this from a friend in my morning email:

All day, I have been coming back to this: How have we arrived at a place where 90% of Americans want to protect our children from gun violence, and yet those who are supposed to represent us in government are unable, or unwilling, to do so?

My first thought is what the hell is wrong with the other 10%?

I am going to pose that question to Sen Toomey today.

Doing nothing is not an option

[Independent Voter]

A bit of personal interaction with Ramos for what it is worth . By personal , I do not mean me personally .

https://www.westernjournal.com/tx-sc...eople-reports/

[Sandman]

Machine guns (NFA weapons) are easy to own, just time consuming. To own one, assuming you can afford the gun, all you have to do is submit fingerprints, ATF form 4 and $200 to ATF and wait for about a year to get your approval and tax stamp. I assume the same process will apply if they decide to ban so-called assault weapons.

Looking from the angle of someone who is not a firearms collector.. the restrictions and requirements of acquiring a Machine Gun are major obstacles, and most often, something that they wouldn’t voluntarily deal with.

Note: When was the last time a machine gun was used in a mass killing?

And, I don’t know what to call the AR-15/Ak-47 class of weapons except assault rifles.. hunting rifles are often described by their use ie: Deer rifles and varmint rifles, is Human rifle more appropriate?

I just don’t understand..

[Truckman]

hunting rifles are often described by their use ie: Deer rifles and varmint rifles, is Human rifle more appropriate?

I just don’t understand..

How about "rifle" or "long gun?"...Attaching a purpose to an identifier can cloud the meaning...A single shot .22 caliber rifle can be used in an assault, and an AR-15 can be used in varmint control on a ranch or farm...Pistols and revolvers can both be called handguns although one is not the same as the other......Ben