Another Capital incident

[Dave Grubb]

Two police officers injured, one officer in critical condition.

[Honda]

That is terrible. Seems like that is happening too often. I read somewhere that Antifa was making an armed move on the capitol of Oregon. I think the police put it down. We need a life without parole statute for folks doing these things.

[Kevin]

The Oregon police might have the same reaction they did when an armed mob of 50 or so took over the state capitol protesting masks and other COVID restrictions - ask them to leave, then push them out of the building after an hours long confrontation. Many of the armed mob had flak jackets, long guns and multiple mags. Bear spray was used against police. Windows were smashed, police were hurt, journalists assaulted.

There were five arrests.

Sidenote - the Oregon State Capitol had been locked to prevent this very type of takeover. A Republican legislator, loudly opposed to masks and other restrictions, opened a door for the mob to enter. He is unrepentant still.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/...reach-75228463

[Dave Grubb]

You gotta give that Antifa bunch credit-----they can grab the headlines even when they aren't there.

From Kevin's link:

The incident occurred during a one-day special session on Dec. 21, as Oregon lawmakers met to discuss and pass four bills mainly related to coronavirus relief. The Capitol was closed to the public because of the pandemic.

Tensions rose outside the building, as more than 100 far-right protesters opposing statewide COVID-19 restrictions gathered. Some toted guns, carried Trump flags, chanted for the arrest of Gov. Kate Brown and assaulted reporters as they tried to force their way into the building by breaking glass doors.

Based on security video, Nearman, 56, walked out of a side door of the Capitol building, where two protesters stood. Nearman pushed the door all the way open and moved out of the way as a protester carrying a flag with stars, stripes and a Punisher logo rushed into the building, catching a second door that also electronically locks.

Another protester held the outside door as both waved for others to follow them. Within 30 seconds, officers rushed into the vestibule, pushed out the protesters and tried to close the door, but they were unsuccessful. As officers and protesters gathered, chemical spray was used by both sides and police officers reported not being able to see clearly before they ceded the area.

The intruders faced officers and chanted “enemies of the state” for an hour before police were able to clear the area, Oregon Public Broadcasting reported.

“They were focused on disrupting the proceedings, not unlike what happened in our nation’s Capitol,” Kotek said.

At least five people were arrested, including one man who state police say sprayed bear mace at officers.

The legal consequences that Nearman, one of the chamber's most conservative Republicans, might face are still unfolding as state police investigate his actions and the Legislative Equity Office discusses if they will pursue further disciplinary actions.

Yes sir---them Antifa folks be Wylie Wabbits

[Honda]

I'm not even going to respond. I refuse to get in look at my post I'm right vs no look at my post I'm right. There are numerous news stories that set out that antifa caused major problems in Oregon at the Capitol. But you guys can spin it any way you want to. I think I'm going to join Joe and let you folks have at it on politics. You and Kevin have a good time talking to each other.

[Honda]

The Oregon police might have the same reaction they did when an armed mob of 50 or so took over the state capitol protesting masks and other COVID restrictions - ask them to leave, then push them out of the building after an hours long confrontation. Many of the armed mob had flak jackets, long guns and multiple mags. Bear spray was used against police. Windows were smashed, police were hurt, journalists assaulted.

There were five arrests.

Sidenote - the Oregon State Capitol had been locked to prevent this very type of takeover. A Republican legislator, loudly opposed to masks and other restrictions, opened a door for the mob to enter. He is unrepentant still.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/...reach-75228463

See my reply to Dave's post above. Seems like one time you called me out for whataboutism.

[UTAH]

You and Kevin have a good time talking to each other.

Yeah - that goes for me too. I'm too darned busy to get the facts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

Hunter

[Kevin]

Actually, Honda, my post isn't whataboutism. It is about proportionate response. The police train for this and they are pretty good at it, generally. They have certainly had plenty of practice in Oregon, unfortunately. I was giving an example of how they have responded in the past, to what I consider to be a pretty bad situation. They kept cool and did only what was necessary and did not escalate needlessly.

Life without parole seems to be a massive overreaction compared to how the police seem to view these incidents. Something about Antifa really sends conservatives up the wall and they go all "Hulk smash!" but to me, they are no different than their counterparts and as such, should probably face the same sort of response.

Try not to get so angry so easily, Honda. It is just the Internet and I'm just a nobody with a keyboard.

For complete disclosure, I'll admit I did choose my example to make my point very carefully, though...

[Honda]

I'm not angry. I'm just sick of debating especially when it's fruitless. For the record my comment about life without parole was about anybody that attacks a government building while armed I don't really give a damn what political party they support or belong to. I'm not partisan at all when it comes to jackasses that do those kinds of things. I guess we will agree to disagree but to me it was classic whataboutism since you didn't address anything antifa did but responded to my post by stating all the bad things that conservative right wing and Republicans have done. Go back and look it over I put nothing political in my post you did that and that's why I'm bowing out of political discussions for the time being. You guys can argue with yourself.

[Honda]

Yeah - that goes for me too. I'm too darned busy to get the facts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

Hunter

I'm not sure how to take that Utah you were either being sincere or a smartass I'll look at it as the former hopefully that's what you meant.

[Kevin]

It is interesting that you don't view putting your response in terms of left wing violence as "political", Honda. It illustrates my point that Antifa is a blind spot for conservatives.

Be that as it may, I've been where you are now - needing a break from things.

[Honda]

That is terrible. Seems like that is happening too often. I read somewhere that Antifa was making an armed move on the capitol of Oregon. I think the police put it down. We need a life without parole statute for folks doing these things.

Please tell me where I said anything about left-wing right-wing or political. You're reading it with your mind not your eyes.

[Kevin]

Antifa is a left wing organization. You could have said "violent protesters". You chose instead to put the violence in terms of specifically left wing agitators.

Four days ago, there was mutual combat between right wing and left wing agitators at the Capitol Oregon, so you might have put your post in those terms if you wanted to remain non-political and just talk about the violence. You chose to focus on what left wing idiots were doing.

Antifa is a blind spot for conservatives. Once they are involved, that's the end of the story. I believe you are sincere in not even recognizing that you are doing this, Honda, and I'm not trying to anger you by saying so.

[Kevin]

I did some digging on this story about the recent violence in Salem. It looks as if a group of Proud Boys and MAGA supporters faced off against Antifa. Rocks and paint balloons were thrown, a Trump supporter pulled a gun and got arrested, street battles, it was a mess.

However, Fox News, the Washington Times, and other right wing media all ran the same story, practically verbatim, about how Antifa came to town and caused a riot by fighting with right wing demonstrators. It was truly blatant - the right wing media was feeding off one story and that story was Antifa, not about TWO violent groups.

If someone mostly read right wing media, they would have missed the mutuality of the violence. So when you say that Antifa came to town and caused violence that the police put down, I can understand where you got that interpretation of the events. Antifa sends conservatives up the wall. Here, in Salem, the fact that they came to town to fight right wing groups also known for violence got glossed over by the right wing media.

[Kevin]

A small group of Proud Boys and Trump supporters traveled to OregonÂ’s Capitol on Sunday, where they clashed with a group of about 150 anti-fascist counterprotesters.

The group of far-right supporters published flyers in the days leading up to the rally, saying they were gathering to support “freedom.”

https://www.opb.org/article/2021/03/...ists-in-salem/

Now, contrast this with the story in Fox News and run verbatim on the Washington Times:

Salem Police arrested at least three people and urged others to stay away from Oregon's State Capitol building Sunday evening as violence linked to Antifa-aligned protesters broke out.

Furthermore, Fox includes testimony from an "independent journalist", Andy Ngo, who talks about the event in terms of Antifa violence. I did a search on Andy Ngo. He had a Wikipedia page:

Andy Cuong Ngô (born c. 1986) is an American conservative journalist and social media personality from Portland, Oregon, known for covering and video-recording demonstrators.[2] He is the editor-at-large of The Post Millennial, a Canadian conservative news website.[3] Ngo is a regular guest on Fox News[4] and has published columns in outlets such as the Wall Street Journal and The Spectator. Ngo's coverage of anti-fascist groups and Muslims has been controversial, and the accuracy and credibility of his reporting have been disputed. He has been widely accused of sharing misleading and selectively edited videos,[5][6][7][8] described as a provocateur,[9][10][11][12] and accused of having links with militant right-wing groups in Portland.[13][14][15][16]

He also has a book, Antifa Unmasked, about the plot by Antifa to destroy the United States. That's the independent journalist Fox and others are quoting as their source for reporting.