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Thread: Obituary of the republican party

  1. #1
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    Obituary of the republican party

    Read slowly and absorb what is being said here:

    A GOP that once prided itself on its intellectual debates is now ruled by the turgid formulations of what the Soviets would have called their “leading cadres,” including ideological watchdogs such as Tucker Carlson and Mark Levin. Like their Soviet predecessors, a host of dull and dogmatic cable outlets, screechy radio talkers, and poorly written magazines crank out the same kind of fill-in-the-blanks screeds full of delusional accusations, replacing “NATO” and “revanchism” with “antifa” and “radicalism.”

    Falling in line, just as in the old Communist Party, is rewarded, and independence is punished. The anger directed at Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger makes the stilted ideological criticisms of last century’s Soviet propagandists seem almost genteel by comparison. (At least Soviet families under Brezhnev didn’t add three-page handwritten denouncements to official party reprimands.)

    This comparison is more than a metaphor; it is a warning. A dying party can still be a dangerous party. The Communist leaders in those last years of political sclerosis arrayed a new generation of nuclear missiles against NATO, invaded Afghanistan, tightened the screws on Jews and other dissidents, lied about why they shot down a civilian 747 airliner, and, near the end, came close to starting World War III out of sheer paranoia.

    The Republican Party is, for now, more of a danger to the United States than to the world. But like the last Soviet-era holdouts in the Kremlin, its cadres are growing more aggressive and paranoid. They blame spies and provocateurs for the Capitol riot, and they are obsessed with last summer’s protests (indeed, they are fixated on all criminals and rioters other than their own) to a point that now echoes the old Soviet lingo about “antisocial elements” and “hooligans.” They blame their failures at the ballot box not on their own shortcomings, but on fraud and sabotage as the justification for a redoubled crackdown on democracy.

    Another lesson from all this history is that the Republicans have no path to reform. Like their Soviet counterparts, their party is too far gone. Gorbachev tried to reform the Soviet Communist Party, and he remains reviled among the Soviet faithful to this day. Similar efforts by the remaining handful of reasonable Republicans are unlikely to fare any better. The Republican Party, to take a phrase from the early Soviet leader Leon Trotsky, should now be deposited where it belongs: in the “dustbin of history.”
    I do feel like an orphan at this point
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

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    To be devoured by the People's Democratic Party perhaps?
    The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible - Arthur C. Clarke

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    To be devoured by the People's Democratic Party perhaps?
    To offer possibly a more accurate description of my feelings---it is as if I am outside my own house, standing in the yard and looking through the windows at those inside---and I don't recognize them, it is no longer my family

    I am not going to move across the street but I also cannot condon what is going on. To censure anyone who does not toe a very narrow ideological line and do so while saluting an orange god is not a party I want to be part of. I also believe that there are far more like me that will make the same move. I'm afraid my old house needs to be burned down.
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

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    The Russian analogy goes further. Russia's hardliners hurt the country to the point where now, Russia's power internationally is a negative one only. They can mess things up, play a spoiler role, keep other countries from achieving any goals, but Russia doesn't have the power to exert in furtherance of it own objectives.

    If the Republicans keep praying at the altar of Trump (and based on the golden statue of Trump that just got unveiled at CPAC, they seem to be headed down that road) I think they will become a permanent minority opposition party, able only to keep things from happening, not able to effect any ideologic vision of America.

    Does anyone know what Republicans actually stand for these days? The platform it ran on last year was pretty much "whatever Trump says".

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    You two partisans won’t listen to the actual real-live ones here. What’s the point of discussing politics with either of you?
    "Back after 5 years. I thought you had died.

    don"


    Splitting my time between the montane and the mesas

    The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep.

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    I'll continue to vote Republican because it still beats the alternative.
    The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible - Arthur C. Clarke

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    Not if there is a new reasonable alternative.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CactusCurt View Post
    You two partisans won’t listen to the actual real-live ones here. What’s the point of discussing politics with either of you?
    Well, in fairness, the same could be asked of you. I've explained my positions carefully and completely. Why don't you agree with me? LOL!!!

    partisan: noun
    A strong supporter of a party, cause, or person.

    I don't think I can be said to be a strong supporter of a party, cause or person. I'm strongly against the sort of nonsense Trump sold for four years, but there were some things he did I agreed with (though I didn't like the method of implementation). I support some Democratic programs, but I'm against abortion and increasing the minimum wage and the New Green Deal. So I think you are inaccurate when you call me partisan. I pick and choose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Grubb View Post
    Not if there is a new reasonable alternative.
    I don't see that happening. Third parties haven't proven viable. I think it much more likely that the radicals will split off to form a Trump party and the Republicans will reform.
    The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible - Arthur C. Clarke

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I don't see that happening. Third parties haven't proven viable. I think it much more likely that the radicals will split off to form a Trump party and the Republicans will reform.
    That would be an acceptable alternative to me. The party,to have any place for me, has to reject the cult and it's embracing of authoritarianism, basically go back to being Republican with a capital "R".
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

  11. #11
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    If the GOP remains bound to Trump, then yes the party is destined to wallow on the sideline.

    I say this reluctantly: the best we can hope for is he is taken down in one of the many investigations headed his way.

    Reluctantly because if you have any significant tax calculations, you know how complicated and subjective the tax code can be.
    "Back after 5 years. I thought you had died.

    don"


    Splitting my time between the montane and the mesas

    The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep.

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    I was wrong about the forming of a "Trump party". Trump himself nixed that today at CPAC. He says he is sticking with the Republican party and molding it to his likeness. I guess that means we will lose the elephant and replace it with the golden idol.
    The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible - Arthur C. Clarke

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    I was talking to a couple of Trump supporters up my way recently. They said they would follow Trump because "he fights". I think McConnell and Cheney and Kinzinger and the rest are out of touch with most of their base. Greene, Boebert, Gosar, Blackburn, Johnson, Lee - they are people who are not as concerned about winning as they are about fighting, conflict. They seem to understand that the base doesn't necessarily care if they win so much as if they always fight, no matter what.

    Over the years, I've heard the same from members not now posting. It is politics as catharsis and performance. It is also the mindset of a permanent opposition party that is coming to terms with the fact that they will never be able to positively affect the course of the country. They can only say "no" and slow down change.

    Too bad. I was raised in a family of Rockefeller Republicans. Those days are gone.

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    With the one exception of the casual attitude on the raising of taxes, I agree in the greater part of the ideals of the Rockefeller Republican thought on governance .

    n domestic policy, Rockefeller Republicans were typically moderate to center-right economically,[13] however they vehemently rejected conservatives like Barry Goldwater and their laissez faire economic polices while holding beliefs in social policies that were often culturally liberal. They typically favored a social safety net and a continuation of New Deal programs but sought to run these programs more efficiently than the Democrats.[14] Nevertheless, Rockefeller Republicans opposed socialism and government ownership and were strong supporters of big business and Wall Street, though they supported some regulation of business. But rather than increasing regulation of business, they advocated for developing a mutually beneficial relationship between public interests and private enterprise, drawing comparisons and similarities to the French Dirigisme or the Japanese Developmental state.[14] They espoused government and private investments in environmentalism, healthcare, and higher education as necessities for a better society and economic growth in the tradition of Rockefeller. They were strong supporters of state colleges, trade schools and universities with low tuition and large research budgets, and also favored investments in infrastructure such as highway projects.[2]

    Reflecting Nelson Rockefeller's tradition of technocratic problem solving, most Rockefeller Republicans were known to have a pragmatic and interdisciplinary approach to problem solving and governance while advocating for a broad consensus rather than a consolidation of support. Also welcoming an increased public role for engineers, doctors, scientists, economists, and businessmen over politicians in crafting policies and programs. As a result, many Rockefeller Republicans were major figures in business, such as auto executive George W. Romney and investment banker C. Douglas Dillon. In fiscal policy, they favored balanced budgets and were not averse to raising taxes in order to achieve them. Connecticut Senator Prescott Bush once called for Congress to "raise the required revenues by approving whatever levels of taxation may be necessary".[15]

    There is ,of course , a lot more to the article. But this blurb states the position well enough .

    Now, name a person we can put forth who will govern in that manner ?. Would a Desantis / Noem ticket carry the day ?. They seam to be the closest " Republican Conservatives " to the ideal that are on the radar at this time.
    Individual rights are protected only as long as they don't conflict with the desires of the state .

  15. #15
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    My main issues with those two is how they denigrated masking and social distancing in lockstep with Trump. Neither are as polarizing as Trump so there is a good chance for them in 2024. Nikki Haley hasn't got a chance after dissing Trump.

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