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Thread: Are we at a cross roads?

  1. #16
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    This discussion reminds me a lot of the patriot act debates here. We worried about incrementalism then also. Me, not so much. I probably should have.
    "Back after 5 years. I thought you had died.

    don"


    Splitting my time between the montane and the mesas

    The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep.

  2. #17
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    Well, WRT the FD, we would be going back to something that had worked well for 40 years before it was jettisoned.

  3. #18
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    I've never heard of Parler but I don't have a concern with them pulling the app. It does not remove peoples right to free speech. It just removes peoples right to use Parler....

    Killing Trumps Tweeter account was the best thing to ever happen to this country and should have been done years ago. He still has his right to free speech, just not on Tweeter.

    If the quadrennial presidential candidate started spewing gibberish on this site Mike has the right to ban him...

    I don't think we are at any kind of cross roads. i just think social media is correcting a bit.... It needs too.

  4. #19
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    So I can't share an opinion of anything unless I find somebody to disagree with me. It worked for 40 years because you couldn't share an opinion with anyone but your neighbor. Progress as in the internet allowed us to spread the word and the powers that be will only want their opinion heard. "They" will be the government and we the people won't get a say basically. This election is headed right where everyone said it was going. Ms. Harris will be quite happy. We can't go backwards we can't give in we've fought all over the world to stop what has worked because of one incident. What happened at the capital was horrible but we can't get as stupid as the people that started the mess because some criminals got hurt. Should have shot the first ones in and we wouldn't be wanting to start the process of socialism.
    This is your mind on drugs!

  5. #20
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    I think you are overstating the case.

    The FD does not apply to individuals, just broadcast companies.

    I dunno what the powers that be want. I'm speaking for myself, a person without any discernible power. We get a say in government every time we vote. We had a pretty nifty country for a few years before the Internet. It would survive if the Internet vanished tomorrow. We communicated with each other just fine.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Repealing Sec. 230 would also kill this site as I am not going to be liable for what our quadrennial presidential candidate (or anyone else) says. If it is repealed, the site will be shut down immediately.
    Tough luck....yours is the kind of speech we want to censor.

    This example is all I need to affirm my belief that regulating speech is dangerous. All we will have left is government sanctioned big media..

    Killing the Cracker Barrel doesn’t do squat to address the issue. But it does grow the regulatory state.
    "Back after 5 years. I thought you had died.

    don"


    Splitting my time between the montane and the mesas

    The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep.

  7. #22
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    In the western United States, in the 1800s, people were allowed to wear guns in town, until violence got out of hand. Laws were then passed forcing responsibility, including prohibitions.

    People wanted order more than principle. They made a cost benefit analysis and curtailed rights. Society was better for it, they believed.

    Just pointing out that responsible use of public space has been dealt with in the past. We all survived having our rights balanced against the harm indulging these rights unreservedly created.

  8. #23
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    The idea that if the Internet shut down, nothing would be left except government sponsored propaganda is just not true.

    Before the Internet, for example, we had several newspapers in one of the cities I lived in. They all competed with each other. It was the Internet that killed all of them. We went from two a day, plus special editions, to a newspaper published twice a week.

    Consider that the Pentagon Papers were published before the Internet. Woodward and Bernstein exposed the Watergate scandal before the Internet. The idea that if Twitter shut down nothing but the government would be left with a voice is just not true. We did fine before the Internet.

  9. #24
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    "This example is all I need to affirm my belief that regulating speech is dangerous. All we will have left is government sanctioned big media".
    "They" will be the government and we the people won't get a say basically.
    " Exactly what I meant when I said the above, The speech that the government or the rich want us to hear will still be heard, there will only be one side of the argument though.

    Kevin, I understand what you meant about "several news papers" that the internet killed, we do not have any where near the media of thirty or forty years ago though, the news anymore is no more than somebody's political agenda. There is as much integrity in the NYT and the post than there is in the white house. None!
    This is your mind on drugs!

  10. #25
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    I don't know where or when the idea that newspapers were expected to be neutral arbiters got started. You had a mix. The NYT had a more liberal bent. The Hearst Group of newspapers had a very conservative bent. That's why you read a couple and why it was better when there were several - you had the opportunity to get the news from different angles.

    While it is true that a newspaper as a whole might have a political bias, that normally shows up in the selection of story and in the editorial section. Journalistic and professional standards at nearly ALL the reputable papers ensured that what you were reading was at least true. You were expected to be savvy enough to understand that it was also important what you were NOT reading.

    I've heard the specific criticism about the NYT being biased and it is sort of a shibboleth for conservatives. No one can point to a specific incident where the paper actually lied about something. It seems to be more of a "tone" thing, with more favorable articles about Dem Presidents than Rep Presidents. Is that accurate?

  11. #26
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    One other thing about newspapers - they had to be purchased, so they tended to reflect the dominant politics of the region. Hearst sold papers in the Midwest with a conservative bias. The NYT and the Washington Post sold papers in a region more liberal. The Wall Street Journal catered to a conservative crowd.

    I lived in Georgia in the 60s. The Atlanta Constitution had to sell newspapers in towns that were mostly Klan. Think it liked Johnson much in those days? Nope.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
    The idea that if the Internet shut down, nothing would be left except government sponsored propaganda is just not true.

    Before the Internet, for example, we had several newspapers in one of the cities I lived in. They all competed with each other. It was the Internet that killed all of them. We went from two a day, plus special editions, to a newspaper published twice a week.

    Consider that the Pentagon Papers were published before the Internet. Woodward and Bernstein exposed the Watergate scandal before the Internet. The idea that if Twitter shut down nothing but the government would be left with a voice is just not true. We did fine before the Internet.
    Just a day or two ago there was a thread here where everyone pledged allegiance to ecommerce and online bill paying.

    The original poster asked either whether it’s time for censorship, or how to implement it. Still not sure. Somehow you made it about going back to the good old days when Rob and Laura slept in separate beds.

    Make no mistake, Dave is advocating for silencing speech he is opposed to. Not surprising since he already wished they would catch covid and die.
    "Back after 5 years. I thought you had died.

    don"


    Splitting my time between the montane and the mesas

    The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by CactusCurt View Post
    Just a day or two ago there was a thread here where everyone pledged allegiance to ecommerce and online bill paying.

    The original poster asked either whether it’s time for censorship, or how to implement it. Still not sure. Somehow you made it about going back to the good old days when Rob and Laura slept in separate beds.

    Make no mistake, Dave is advocating for silencing speech he is opposed to. Not surprising since he already wished they would catch covid and die.

    You are taking my covid comment completely out of context, I was talking about the mob that invaded the Capital---and yes in that context I meant that----this was a despicable act against the United States of America---period

    I also deleted the post the following morning.
    Last edited by Dave Grubb; 01-11-2021 at 07:46 AM.
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

  14. #29
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    I disagree that I am taking it out of context, but we won’t know now will we?

    You may have deleted it but you still remember what you said.
    "Back after 5 years. I thought you had died.

    don"


    Splitting my time between the montane and the mesas

    The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep.

  15. #30
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    I confirm what I said---and YES I meant it. I deleted the post because in it's totality I was uncomfortable with the tone--that said, I give no quarter to those people that attacked our Capital.

    The attempt to equate these goons and what they did, to the riots in the cities is sad. I do not, in any way, condone trashing property of any sort, but comparing looting a CVS to desiccating the nations Capital, with the intent of killing (hang Pence) the members of Congress is beyond comparison.
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

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