Totally avoidable and sad sad deaths

[Dave Grubb]

I just heard this on the news this morning and had to verify that it was correct---sadly it appears that it was:

More deaths associated with Hurricane Laura were caused by the improper use of portable generators than the storm itself.

And officials warn that the risk of carbon monoxide poisoning persists, as thousands of households in Louisiana remain without power.

Eight of the 15 hurricane-related deaths confirmed by the Louisiana Department of Health are attributed to carbon monoxide poisoning from portable generators, which can provide life-saving power in emergency situations but also pose a deadly threat if used incorrectly.

The unidentified victims of carbon monoxide poisoning range in age from 24 to 84 years old, and outnumber the deaths caused by drowning, fallen trees and storm cleanup.

Officials in Lake Charles said at a press briefing on Friday that five people in one house succumbed to carbon monoxide poisoning after fumes from their generator — which was running in an attached garage — entered through a door that was either partially or fully open.

I find that almost impossible to believe---but if anyone is using a portable generator----get the damn thing away from the house as far as your industrial extension cord will take it.
Once you have it a long way from the house, make sure it is not anywhere close to an open window or door.

[Sandman]

Good news.. bad news..

The good news..

Honda has started putting carbon monoxide detectors/ shut down on their generators

Bad news..

Honda is a high end generator and not one that the “once a year” user will invest in..

Our back up generator sits outside the garage door and has “rain hat” (two pieces of PVC pipe and a 4x6 rubber floor mat over them, )

Hint: refueling the generator in the dark, in the rain isn’t fun... suggest that gas be transferred to smaller can/cans that hold less than the generator so.. in the dark, in the rain one just dumps the entire jug into the generator.. no trying to watch the gas level, no over flow.. a five quart oil jug is perfect for out Yammer Hammer 2400..

[Mike]

I have spent weeks at a time running a generator 24x7 after tropical storms and hurricanes have taken out the power lines. I always have at least two carbon monoxide dectors in the house, one in each occupied bedroom.

[TriGuy]

at our mountain house the generator ran in a detached garage with all the doors and windows open and even then it was right at the open roll up doors. it was 50 feet from the house. It currently lives in a shed in my back yard If I need to run it it goes in the Gazebo which is 40 feet out from the house.

never run anything in the house or near open windows or doors.

[Sandman]

Mine sits under the deck, outside the garage.. I’ll try and post a picture of the “rain hat”..

Mike.. my 24/7 story.. our neighborhood is isolated between highway and creek.. three long main streets.. we now know that each of the three streets was developed at a different time and the electric feeds are completely separate..

Well.. we had one terrible storm and power was out.. power company said for a week.. I drove 10 miles out and found an open gas station.. bought 25 gallons of generator gas in cans..

Four hours after returning home the power came back on.. next street over was out for a week..

The old Toyota didn’t see a gas station for months.. kept pouring cans into it

[Dave Grubb]

We have carbon monoxide detectors throughout the house. When I do need the generator it is in a detached garage and the roll up doors are all open. Coming soon---a pad mounted whole house generator, propane fueled.

I know how easily someone can be overcome by carbon monoxide---it damn near killed me when I was in Korea---and out of pure stupidity. It was bitter cold and I went to the village for dinner with a friend.

One common cooking "stove" in Korea is a charcoal brazier, normally started in a sort of entry way, outside the living space, then brought inside to cook, then taken back outside. On this night, in an effort to counter the cold we brought the brazier inside and left it there after doing the cooking. It was almost our undoing. Somehow in the fog of my mind I realized my friend was unconscious and I crawled toward the door---where I passed out. As I did, I fell against the door and I ended up with my head outside in the entry way. I don't know how long I was like that but I woke up in time to collect my thoughts and my friend and get out of there. Once outside I realized what we had done.

I suffered a sever headache for a number of days after that and then for years I was sensitized to CO and would develop an immediate headache when exposed even at minimal levels.

[TriGuy]

This can power my entire house

[wacojoe]

I can surmise why it happens, as I have been under these conditions myself. You can understand why people regard electricity as a necessity. Maybe #1 is preserving refrigerated food, and it goes down the list from there. Remember, the rain goes on for many hours in these storms. Generators are not designed to work in the rain and most must be refueled often. Where are you going to put them where they are covered? Yeah, the covered porch, if you are lucky enough to have one. That is not a good place because the colorless, odorless gas generated on a porch has the nasty habit of transpiring into the house. Bingo, dead people.

[Dave Grubb]

I can surmise why it happens, as I have been under these conditions myself. You can understand why people regard electricity as a necessity. Maybe #1 is preserving refrigerated food, and it goes from there. Remember, the rain goes on for many hours in these storms. Generators are not designed to work in the rain and most must be refueled often. Where are you going to put them where they are covered? Yeah, the covered porch, if you are lucky enough to have one. That is not a good place because the colorless, odorless gas generated on a porch has the nasty habit of transpiring into the house. Bingo, dead people.

First to the pad mounted generator, I am looking at a 16 kW unit. One big load is the 2 HP well pump.

To your thoughts Joe--I recently heard of a couple who died as a result of running their generator in an attached garage and the only opening into the house was under the door seal where they had the cord run into the house.

Currently, I back feed through an exterior outlet. I pull the mains before hand and then selectively turn circuits on and off to control the load. I cannot run the well pump with my 4.5 kW Honda generator.

[LawDog]

You can't fix stupid, or in some cases, ignorance. (well, you CAN fix ignorance, but the person has to want to) I ran a generator to power my home for 23 days a few years back due to a horrific Ice Storm that encompassed the state. But, I sat it outside the garage and kept the garage door closed. 1 other concern about ignorant people using portable generators, is when they do not use a cut off switch and the power reverses out the house and fries the lineman working on a pole a mile away. The power company hates them.

[Blue74]

I purchased a Predator 3500 Generator last march for the desert after my 26 year old Yamaha EF 1000 stopped running. It was in the bed of the truck, underneath the tonneau cover if it rained. I've since sold the 1998 Alfa Ideal and purchased a 2014 Keystone Cougar 337FLS. It has a slide out storage tray on the rear of the trailer. So the generator is mounted to the tray with the exhaust facing to the edge of the trailer. The only time I ran the generator was to watch TV or to charge the batteries. But on the new trailer I've installed, with the help of a friend a 4 battery 6 volt battery bank and 4 100 watt solar panels. I don't think I will be using the generator as much now.

[Dave Grubb]

Nice set up---and welcome back---I was wondering about you

[CactusCurt]

Dave, $.02 on backup generators.

My backup generator is a 25 kw Kohler circa 2010 +/-. Its powered by a propane fueled GM 4 cylinder. The "key switch" is a bunch of solar equipment in my case. How it turns on is an important consideration.

Anyway, this spring when I returned I had a generator shut-down fault with a control panel description talking about low alternator current. It also had zero hours on the hour meter, 190 degrees (all the sensors feed to the control panel), 400+ psi of fuel pressure, and I'm sure a few I don't remember off the top of my head. This is with it stone cold in April.

This is all on the little brain that controls everything. So even though my power system was working fine, no generator starty. Did I mention I wished it had a key switch?

So I get on the horn to Wisconsin, who sends me to the Colorado dealer over in Denver. They don't give a damn about some guys first world problems with his vacation home. He did mumble something about its "personality profile"? That took 3 weeks of phone tag.

So I called the solar dudes from Vail who installed it. They were very helpful, and as it turned out I needed a computer guy and not a mechanic. Somehow my generator control panel had its circuits scrambled leaving me two options. Try to restore the control panel by resetting its defaults in its personality profile , or get a new one and install my personality profile onto it.

Your personality profile has all the data about the generator characteristics and settings such as fuel type, engine, voltage output, flywheel teeth, and pretty much everything you can imagine. It's a CD that comes with the generator, but only a Kohler tech can do anything with it vis their proprietary software.

I was able to get everything working again after a 3 short months, and $1250. And I got off easy.

So, my point is that if it weren't for the voltage/load demand, idle time, and exercise settings I need in an off-grid situation, I would have gone with a manual start. Also, I should have better understood the technical support I would need. God help me if I ever need a Kohler mechanic. And last, 25 kw is overkill and would power about everything I have all at once.

I am very disappointed in how many new dependencies my independence has given me.

[Dave Grubb]

Very interesting and helpful, thank you.

As a bit of an aside, as a written procedure I require every machine that comes in the door have the controls backed up to the server before it even goes into production. Once in operation each machine has to have a routine back up done quarterly or after any changes to the machine parameters. That includes the machines that are connected to the web and can be accessed by the manufacturer.

After being burned a few times I am adamant about that.

I am thinking I will have an auto switch because I want it to self start and exercise itself periodically. I will look into a manual switch as well---I would not have questioned that.

Regarding size, at 16 kW I might have to shed some AC load in the summer but not much---oh and the dryer isn't in that calculation. The well pump is the biggest issue since there are two houses on it and the tank bleeds down pretty quickly.

[Mike]

I installed an 85KW Generac at work. It, too, was software controlled with its own profile. I was given the disc and warned about how expensive it would be to have it recreated. That part makes no sense to me. A particular brand and model should use the same software as any other generator of the same brand and model. But, it had a manual switch built in.