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Thread: Thoughts on our statues

  1. #1
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    Thoughts on our statues

    I support the current focus on our historically important statues---I do not support the current process of purging (and/or destroying) those statues.

    I hope that we can mature and learn from this focus rather than continue to divide.

    To do that, we first have to acknowledge that what most of us were taught about our historical heroes was, in many cases, historical bull chit. Case in point, Custer. Custer was some kind of hero in my schooling---he gave up his life to protect the good guys from those blood thirsty Indians. It wasn't until I visited Wounded Knee, many years latter, that I began to see Custer in a more realistic light. The more I studied the more I realized that Custer was not a tragic hero but a despicable, arrogant, self promoting fool. I find nothing to honor in Custer.

    The larger problem is that few of these heroes are as clear cut as Custer, rather, they are human beings with human failings as well as admiral aspects. That thought immediately brings Thomas Jefferson to mind.
    Jefferson has long been of great historical interest to me and I have studied him intensely. He also has posed a conundrum to me, for which I have no answer. Jefferson was obviously very bright, unquestionably well schooled and read as well as a visionary. But---he had a sad lack of any compassion toward slaves and a deep acceptance of one of man's most damning practices. I will go no further than his treatment of Sally Hemings, his sister-in-law, nanny to his two oldest children, mother to his six younger children---and his slave. I do not propose that relationship was overtly abusive---but till the time of his death Jefferson denied the ongoing relationship and at no time did he acknowledge Sally Hemings as an equal (and free) human being. I see it as an explainable flaw in the character of a great man who was in so many ways one of the founders of our nation.

    That said, does this flaw justify purging Jefferson from pedestals? I think not. I do believe that we can best honor our historical heroes by learning in a more holistic way who they were, what they accomplished and realizing that they too were human--with all the warts and frailties we all share.

    By purging them, we loose any sense of the value their lives offered and lessons that can be learned.
    Last edited by Dave Grubb; 07-06-2020 at 11:07 AM.
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

  2. #2
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    Say what you will, but they are tearing down "my" history and replacing it with someone elses.

    And while it's clear that everyone's America is changing, why is it expected that I celebrate it when "my" America changes?
    "Back after 5 years. I thought you had died.

    don"


    Splitting my time between the montane and the mesas

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    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep.

  3. #3
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    It's history. Good or bad you can't change it by destroying statues... People suck lately.

  4. #4
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    This is the age of information. What could be done is a through background check of those enshrined on statues. Then a complete history could be placed on a repeating screen [ which would be protected from vandals ] some type of protective glass. The screen would be placed at the statue so people could see the FACTS about each individual. No need to tear down history , good or bad. We should learn from it.
    Individual rights are protected only as long as they don't conflict with the desires of the state .

  5. #5
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    Do they think those statues are going to pee on them, maybe say gosh darn to them, do the rioters have no brains?
    Old redneck hillbilly borned and raised on a redwood stump.

  6. #6
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    As for the statues, I would like to see them in some sort of museum where they are shown for what we believed at that time.

    Right or wrong the guys before us helped form this country. Did they do it correctly, NO. Do we need some sort of Hero worship to them, No.

    As for destroying the myths we grew up with that takes some courage to maybe admit it didn't happen the way we were told. Digging back into history we will find wrongs done to more and more people, but as one person said none of us were slave owners or cotton pickers, we didn't kill the Natives.

    We are enjoyed movies, books, and teaching about how we thought the past was. It was presented on the big screen and we came to worshiped those actors/actress for their performances. Some of us still want to be the strong John Wayne, Rambo or Marilyn or type but don't want to look at the warts that also came with the myths. That's how a lot of us got to making our own decisions based on what we feel and try to project on the next person. We haven't walked a mile in their shoes so while we may agree we are not 100% the same.

    As for the upheaval that is going on now it's I feel is going to make a change going forward. What that is I'm not sure of, but I'm in for the ride.
    Fred

    "Everyday I beat my own previous record for number of consecutive days I've
    stayed alive."

    'Take care of yourself, and each other.'

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by CactusCurt View Post
    Say what you will, but they are tearing down "my" history and replacing it with someone elses.

    And while it's clear that everyone's America is changing, why is it expected that I celebrate it when "my" America changes?
    Please point out to me what I said that apparently upset you
    Last edited by Dave Grubb; 07-06-2020 at 11:27 AM.
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Grubb View Post
    Please point out to me what I said that apparently upset you
    I'm not upset. I don't even have a garden gnome (I do have a picture of me .....admiring a statue at a famous museum near Central Park though )Besides, most of the historical monuments around here were defaced by the white man 150 years or so ago.

    My nuanced point was that as long as one history is replaced in favor of another, someone will be offended. As philoslober Phil pointed out, history is what it is. Politicians and activists weaponized it.
    "Back after 5 years. I thought you had died.

    don"


    Splitting my time between the montane and the mesas

    The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep.

  9. #9
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    Understood---thank you
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

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