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Thread: Lindsey"s take on Ukraine

  1. #1
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    Lindsey"s take on Ukraine

    "What I can tell you about the Trump policy toward Ukraine: It was incoherent, it depends on who you talk to, they seem to be incapable of forming a quid pro quo, so no I find the whole process to be a sham and I'm not going to legitimize it."
    OK, OK. So what we have here is this argument: The Trump White House is so disorganized that they couldn't possibly have quid pro quo'ed it! They are too incompetent! So therefore, this whole thing is a sham!
    https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/06/polit...nse/index.html

    Seems a few here have the same take.
    Fred

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  2. #2
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    The caustic news network sure don't like our Pres, so most of us don't like them either.
    Old redneck hillbilly borned and raised on a redwood stump.

  3. #3
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    Interesting tactic---raise the condemnation of the dysfunctional administration while dismissing a crime because of their ineptness. Seems reasonable to me

    Just for giggles---this term , quid pro quo, is nothing more than Latin white washing the English terms---extortion or bribery if you choose.

    Going back to Graham, that might have been the most truthful Graham has been since he flipped on trump.
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Grubb View Post

    Just for giggles---this term , quid pro quo, is nothing more than Latin white washing the English terms---extortion or bribery if you choose.
    Im afraid its you with the whitewash. It simply means one thing for another and is the essence of every negotiation. I just had a lefty (lawyer) try that nonsense on me yesterday.
    "Back after 5 years. I thought you had died.

    don"


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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by CactusCurt View Post
    Im afraid its you with the whitewash. It simply means one thing for another and is the essence of every negotiation. I just had a lefty (lawyer) try that nonsense on me yesterday.
    If you are saying that this exchange was "only" a negotiation I disagree. In this case the bargaining "chip" was $400 million of our money being "offered" to Ukraine in exchange for "services" to be rendered for the benefit of trump, and only trump.

    That is hardly a benign negotiation---it is illegal.
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

  6. #6
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    I object to you attempting to re define quid pro quo to mean bribery and extortion. This shameless dumbing down of our society (kudos to the left - they seem better at it) is creeping into everyday life. I gave you a current and real example of a lawyer claiming a negotiation I am involved in is "unethical" simply because it included a quid pro quo. Its BS.

    After reflecting, I think there may indeed be instances where quid pro quo's are illegal. I have a vague memory of being accused of Bulwark tactics in a union negotiation. Perhaps the left treats foreign wards of the state the same as domestic wards of the state such as unions. That question is for the lawyers.

    I'm still waiting for someone to justify our $400 million donation. I stand by my assertion that this is the real offense against our citizens. The only way to stop this is to cut the money. I wish we weren't distracted with petty bullchit like Trump and Biden in a third world cesspool.
    "Back after 5 years. I thought you had died.

    don"


    Splitting my time between the montane and the mesas

    The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep.

  7. #7
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    Riddle me this: If Donald Trump is the unbalanced, irrational and deranged boob pictured, then how is it he has been successfully leading a roaring economic recovery and surge, which started only upon him taking office, when that most brilliant and perceptive rock of sagacity & stability, Barack H. Obama, failed miserably to do the same for 8 looong years even while we gave him nearly a trillion$ to start, which he promptly squandered on his union slugs to no effect?
    ...............
    “You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out.” — Too fundamental to have an attribution


  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by CactusCurt View Post
    I object to you attempting to re define quid pro quo to mean bribery and extortion. This shameless dumbing down of our society (kudos to the left - they seem better at it) is creeping into everyday life.
    The use of those terms has been the new talking points of the left this week. You should expect nothing less than it being regurgitated by their minions.
    Last edited by Honda; 11-08-2019 at 11:34 AM.
    OPINION....a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

  9. #9
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    ne·go·ti·a·tion
    /nəˌɡōSHēˈāSH(ə)n/
    Learn to pronounce
    noun
    noun: negotiation; plural noun: negotiations

    discussion aimed at reaching an agreement.
    "a worldwide ban is currently under negotiation"

    quid pro quo
    /ˌkwid ˌprō ˈkwō/
    noun
    noun: quid pro quo; plural noun: quid pro quos

    a favor or advantage granted or expected in return for something.
    "the pardon was a quid pro quo for their help in releasing hostages"
    ex·tor·tion
    /ikˈstôrSH(ə)n/

    noun
    noun: extortion; plural noun: extortions

    the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats.
    "he used bribery and extortion to build himself a huge, art-stuffed mansion"
    Bribery refers to the offering, giving, soliciting, or receiving of any item of value as a means of influencing the actions of an individual holding a public or legal duty. ... Bribery constitutes a crime and both the offeror and the recipient can be criminally charged.
    Now---if you choose to revise the dictionary to suit you purposes---have at it---but I am not about to whitewash this crime as a negotiation.
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

  10. #10
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    TRUMP noun (1)


    Definition of trump

    (Entry 1 of 4)
    1a : a card of a suit any of whose cards will win over a card that is not of this suit

    — called also trump card
    b : the suit whose cards are trumps for a particular hand —often used in plural
    2 : a decisive overriding factor or final resource

    — called also trump card
    3 : a dependable and exemplary person
    4: President of the United States



    DERANGEMENT verb



    de·​range | \ di-ˈrānj
    \
    deranged; deranging
    Definition of derange

    transitive verb
    1 : to disturb the operation or functions of deranged by even the slightest damage
    2 : disarrange hatless, with tie deranged— G. W. Stonier
    3 : to make mentally unsound or insane stalked by a deranged fan


    SYNDROME noun

    syn·​drome | \ ˈsin-ˌdrōm also -drəm
    \
    Definition of syndrome

    1 : a group of signs and symptoms that occur together and characterize a particular abnormality or condition
    2 : a set of concurrent things (such as emotions or actions) that usually form an identifiable pattern
    OPINION....a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

  11. #11
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    I notice that you didn't try to adapt any of these definitions to the political machinations in question. By these sloppy standards, States (us) are extorted by the feds every time there is a budget impasse. I admit that my only interest in whether Trump is impeached is economic (and as discussed elsewhere seems to be "priced in"). Admit that your beef is political
    "Back after 5 years. I thought you had died.

    don"


    Splitting my time between the montane and the mesas

    The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep.

  12. #12
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    Admit that your beef is political
    It is not political---it is his lack of ethics. I have far less disagreement with his policy decisions than I do with his style. He is an embarrassment.
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

  13. #13
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    The end justifies the means. Talking about the politics of the whistleblower of course.

    I understand you but can't imagine how some foreign policy objectives will be carried out without the executive branch having the authority to demand conditions. Perhaps if we were to require any such quids/quos be explicitly legislated by our hopelessly gridlocked congress it would lead to that end of wasteful foreign welfare I wish for.
    "Back after 5 years. I thought you had died.

    don"


    Splitting my time between the montane and the mesas

    The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep.

  14. #14
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    I understand you but can't imagine how some foreign policy objectives will be carried out without the executive branch having the authority to demand conditions.
    I have no issue with demanding conditions---as long as those conditions accrue to the USA---that is not what was going on here. As in most everything, the intended benefactor was trump---and trump period
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

  15. #15
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    It is in the president’s job description to investigate the use of our money to further the business interests of the Biden family. There is even a U.S./Ukrainian treaty signed by William Clinton to support that in recognition of the historic corruption of that country. If the deserved soiling of the reputation of Joe Biden is a byproduct of that exercise, then so be it.

    The corruption between U.S. pols and Ukraine is rife and the Biden’s are but a part, but their’s is a damned good place to start seeing as how Joe threw it in our face —

    https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/stev...as-bidens-dems

    https://johnsolomonreports.com/hunte...ns-memos-show/
    ...............
    “You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out.” — Too fundamental to have an attribution


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