The problem with the border environment is the couple mile wide swath where people congregate. It looks like the campground at the lake at the end of 4th of July. A wall can at least save it on one side - I've seen it. I consider anything on the Mexico side and the remote mountain ranges to be lost causes. Some fragile cienegas can probably still be saved if we hustle (Im talking about damage from vehicles mainly). The only way to stop this is to revise immigration policy but I see that as hopeless. Sorry
And there will never be enough money to build the whole thing. But there are places that make damn good sense to have one - like between El Paso and Juarez. If you consider the amount of money we already spend on border enforcement, you might even make a sensible economic argument. On edit: I was also very involved in our pursuit of Loop 375 in El Paso, aka "The Border Highway". DHS was an approving agency and there were a number of surveillance features the project had to incorporate. NOBODY could make it thru a night alone in the war zone between El Paso and Juarez. Although everyone should see the lights of Juarez from the air at night just so...well just because.
Im going to get out over the tips of my skis here, but from what I have seen these border crossings aren't family camping trips. Remember, this is human trafficking by criminals. Its in everyone's best interest that we do something.
BTW, I worked on Bush's wall to use the parlance of the day. I think we might have been working on it under Obama, so it was probably his too. I don't think Trump deserves any recognition for it yet.
Last edited by CactusCurt; 11-04-2019 at 07:09 PM.
"Back after 5 years. I thought you had died.
don"
Splitting my time between the montane and the mesas
The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.
As an aside---I drive under very wide overpasses in NJ every week. They are not for people or vehicles---they are for wildlife---and this is about 15 miles west of NYC.
They are covered by vegetation and the trees are now nearing maturity. The point is, that wildlife don't respect man's borders and migrations both short and long occur everywhere ----and will be far more disrupted by some politically motivated wall than will the folks on their migration.
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
"Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
“You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis
Wow that's deep. I think I get it. Migration is natural and we, as humans animals, will naturally migrate and to interfere with that migration would be an offense to nature. If I got that right it is insane and nothing more than the no border crowds pablum. If you don't have borders you have no property. If you have no property you have no rights..............I could go on and on. Legal, efficient, controlled and fair migration WITH borders seems to me to be an acceptable solution. I could care less about political promises and talking points about a wall.
OPINION....a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
Well, I wasted my time and read that dribble--- and no--- you haven't a clue--- but that isn't anything new.
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
"Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
“You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis
I am a direct descendant of Texas’ “Original 300” white interlopers and settlers on my mother’s side of the family, and my father’s side goes back 150 years in Texas too. My great, great, great grandfather fought in the Battle of San Jacinto, and my family has Mexican Indian blood all through it over the ages, as most longtime Texas families do. My son married a gal of Mexican/Italian extraction making my grandson 1/4 Mexican, but not enough to get special dispensation for state college entry or scholarships.
All that is to say, that I have far from ill will against our Mexican side, but that is not to agree with Fred that we should open the borders and see what happens. Polls and common sense tells us many tens of millions of destitute immigrants are eager to change their luck and come here. You would have to be daft to think that would somehow help this country or you. Look across the border. What do you see? Do you see a lot of what you want brought here? That is what we would get in the deal...what we have got in fact. Mexico and most of Latin America have just as many resources as we have. So why do they, and have they always suffered excruciating poverty and miserable societies teeming with people who want out and want to be here? What separates them from us? My answer: vastly different societies borne out of vastly different histories and mores. We can discuss those differences if you would like. Those tens of millions would bring that inferior society* here, as they have now only to the degree we allow the intrusion. Without an effective border there is not a country, only a territory.
I cannot say a wall is the best way to decrease the onslaught, but I can say that the preferred way of changing inviting laws is presently a foreclosed option under our political stalemate.
* my value judgment I am ready to defend.
...............
“You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out.” — Too fundamental to have an attribution
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible - Arthur C. Clarke
Understood, Joe. I appreciate the time and effort you've spent on this one.
Hunter
I don't care if it hurts. I want to have control. I want a perfect body. I want a perfect soul. - Creep by Radiohead
Who brought up wildlife crossings?
Very common here and installation of "deer fence" is ongoing all over the state. Its a tall fence with escape ramps every so often. The dirt ramps are on the inside only so if an animal somehow gets in he has a way to get out. You need animal underpasses in conjunction with the tall fences as well and we have lots of them.
The new Boulder city bypass near Hoover Dam has bighorn crossings as you crest the hill. There is a silly amount of science that goes into these so that the animals feel comfortable using them.
The strangest ones were the turtle crossings in Charlottesville VA. Never found out if they worked or not.
"Back after 5 years. I thought you had died.
don"
Splitting my time between the montane and the mesas
The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.
Tend to disagree with Joe's assessment of if they come we all get poorer.
Tend to see the glass the other way. More people would require more goods/products and be a boost to the economy since there would be more wanting those goods.
And yes there would be some of those that take advantage of the system/or are bad actors, but to bush the many that just want to improve there way of life as unwanted is a shame.
Fred
"Everyday I beat my own previous record for number of consecutive days I've
stayed alive."
'Take care of yourself, and each other.'
Deer fencing here is to keep the deer inside and the outside deer outside. Land owners and hunting lease operators are trying to improve the herd through selective breeding. That won't work if the deer are allowed to go out on Friday nights and carouse with just any old deer. Sluts!
Which reminds me, I l need to change the battery in my backyard deer feeder.
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible - Arthur C. Clarke
Not sure of Charlottesville but NJ has also done a number of reptile crossings, mostly via tunnels---which have to have grated tops since they will not enter a dark area. They are located on migration routes between hibernation areas and breeding areas.
By chance, it seems we have uncovered another consideration for the design of a border wall, one I have not heard anything about. Does anyone know if the issue of wildlife movement been considered?
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
"Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
“You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis
When we did our piece, the entire program had been authorized undder some kind of emergency declaration. The requirements of the NEPA or whatever the regulatory legislation was called were waived. Thats right, no EIS. If you were a builder it was the good old days. I dont know about these days. I would have assumed we bulldozed an access road the entire length by now but haven't been down to see. There is some weird buffer zone established by some kind of ancient treaty. I seem to recall it being 50' on either side of the border so the wall is actually completely in the US.
We did what was called a "normandy barrier" whose design was to prevent vehicle traffic only. People and critters (except maybe the pronghorns) could easily pass through.
"Back after 5 years. I thought you had died.
don"
Splitting my time between the montane and the mesas
The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.