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Thread: Opening Statement of MarieL.Yovanovitch

  1. #16
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    We see things much differently, but rather than go into all those differences, I would call attention to the central one. You say, “...as best as we can tell from the limited transcript trump made it clear there was a quid pro quo attached to the transfer of aid.” I see nothing to substantiate that claim...in fact, the opposite. Maybe I missed something in that “perfect” conversation. Can you point out the language where Trump mentions or even infers the alleged quid pro quo?

    Are you making a claim that the memos of the conversation are incomplete and do not contain a real threat to withhold the assistance, which Zelenskiy has denied hearing over and over? He has denied even knowing the payments had been delayed.

    Also, I cannot imagine how you deny Biden extorted the Ukrainians and then bragged about it on his infamous video appearance. How else would you characterize withholding our $1.2B aide package unless they fired a prosecutor before he left in 6 hours?
    Last edited by wacojoe; 10-12-2019 at 01:56 PM.
    ...............
    “You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out.” — Too fundamental to have an attribution


  2. #17
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    “I would like you to do us a favor, though,” Mr. Trump responded, shifting to his interest in investigating Democrats and urging that he work with Mr. Barr and Mr. Giuliani.

    “Whatever you can do, it’s very important that you do it if that’s possible,” Mr. Trump said.
    Put that in context and it is clear to me---to a lawyer--especially a defense lawyer maybe less so.

    I also have "prior knowledge" of his character and his methods of operating---which includes large amounts of "contingency statements".
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

  3. #18
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    You are aware that that request for a favor was specifically aimed at Ukraine looking into Hillary’s use of Ukraine in the her 2016 election against trump rather than the Hunter Biden influence and Joe Biden extortion affair which was brought up later and separately, right? Listen again, THERE IS ZERO MENTION OF CURRENT ASSISTANCE or any contingency for its dispersal. There is not even a hint of a wink-wink in that conversation except in the eyes of TDS sufferers.

    And why wouldn’t a president want to know BOTH if his last opponent insisted the aid of Ukraine in her election and the circumstances behind the admitted use of our $1.2B to force that country to make internal changes?
    ...............
    “You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out.” — Too fundamental to have an attribution


  4. #19
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    That is your kool-aid working
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

  5. #20
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    I guess the phone call is today’s version of a Rorschach test.
    ...............
    “You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out.” — Too fundamental to have an attribution


  6. #21
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    Probably.

    From the WSJ:
    By Ken Thomas
    Oct. 13, 2019 9:21 am ET

    The son of Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden plans to step down from the board of a Chinese-based private-equity company amid intense criticism from President Trump that he profited from his father’s name.

    Hunter Biden pledged in a statement released in a Medium post Sunday that he would step down from the board on Oct. 31 and not work for any foreign-owned companies or serve on their boards if his father is elected president.

    He also said he would “readily comply with any and all guidelines and standards” his father may issue as president to address conflicts of interest.
    The younger Mr. Biden, who is 49, “always understood that his father would be guided, entirely and unequivocally, by established U.S. policy, irrespective of its effects on Hunter’s professional interests,” the statement said.

    “He never anticipated the barrage of false charges against both him and his father by the President of the United States.”

    (I have to wonder what rock he has been hiding under )

    Mr. Biden’s statement was first reported by Bloomberg News.

    The former vice president’s campaign didn’t immediately comment on Hunter Biden’s decision.
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

  7. #22
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    The Biden’s have stink all over them, and it is not new. Here’s some of the same family miasma from back in 2008 —

    http://www.theamericanmirror.com/fla...ption-in-2008/

    Incidentally, everybody’s doin’ it, doin’ it with the selling the family name business. Here we find Nancy Pelosi’s son doin’ it in, yes, Ukraine in the oil bidness despite not an iota of credentials —

    https://www.redstate.com/streiff/201...tions-ukraine/

    Yep, Trump’s kin have foreign interests too, but at least they have business credentials.
    ...............
    “You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out.” — Too fundamental to have an attribution


  8. #23
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    It's an interesting argument the two of you are having. I'm learning more from it than from reading the press.

    I think this thread represents to me something I missed while gone - the level of expertise amongst our members is something to appreciate.

    Hunter
    I don't care if it hurts. I want to have control. I want a perfect body. I want a perfect soul. - Creep by Radiohead

  9. #24
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    Joe, I have a problem with all these accusations against the Bidens (and I am not arguing in defense of them---I am arguing in defense of facts). Most, if not all of this trash has come totally unproven from the chief liar of the land---and you throw it about as if they are facts.

    You read this crap in your anointed sources---all of which are extremely biased and many of which are without ethics or principles and toss it out here while you demean any source in disagreement---no matter how respected they might be with grand freedom. One of your favorite assertions (also enjoyed by the chief liar) is that the "fake press" doesn't mention this or that----well---that just might be because this or that is pure fabrication.
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

  10. #25
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    You and your Democrat compadres accuse Trump of quid pro quo demands of the Ukrainians, which you derive from supposing what was meant rather than said, yet you ignore boldly stated quid pro quo threats from Joe Biden and four Democrat senators aimed at those same Ukrainians which are undeniable.

    Joe Biden is on video threatening to withhold assistance money if his demands to fire a prosecutor in a strictly internal Ukrainian matter are not met within hours. Or, do you deny this? If so, let me help you —

    https://youtu.be/rtO1OigwfVs

    Below is a piece illuminating the well known instances of four Democrat Senators in writing threatening Ukraine with their intention of putting the kibosh on Ukrainian aid if the Ukrainians do not bend to their will and attack Trump —

    https://www.dailywire.com/news/rand-...ats-to-ukraine

    Compare those written and video proofs of straight forward threats with the ethereal ones imagined from Trump’s telephone conversation. The difference is stark.
    ...............
    “You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out.” — Too fundamental to have an attribution


  11. #26
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    You have to be kidding Joe! I'm glad he was that blunt. You have no idea how corrupt those countries are and that prosecutor was known to be one of the worst---- putting the squeeze on them was exactly what we should have done--- it was OUR money about to be pissed away
    I would suggest it was in bad form to brag about it however.

    BTW--- that narrator should be horse wiped.

    ...and no, I did not look at the second one--I wasted enough time with the first one.

    Added in edit:

    I just happened to take today's USA Today (free paper) with me to the "library". Just for giggles go to that and read the front page article about the Ukraine. You are running around parroting a story whose source--- and only source lies with the grand liar and his side kick liar----- there is no collaboration to this at all---only repeating of their lies.
    Last edited by Dave Grubb; 10-14-2019 at 08:24 PM.
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

  12. #27
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    Folks stand by this one's going to be exciting it looks like it's clearly going to go 15 rounds. We've got Davie grubby boy up against Joe tex wacko in what looks to be a bruising event.
    OPINION....a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

  13. #28
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    The beginning of the front page article this morning in the WSJ:

    WASHINGTON—President Trump’s former top Russia adviser told House committees Monday that she and other White House officials grew so alarmed about the administration’s efforts to push Ukraine to open certain investigations that they raised their concerns with a White House lawyer, according to people familiar with the matter.

    Fiona Hill, who served on the National Security Council and left the administration in August, testified for about nine hours before three House panels as part of the impeachment inquiry examining the president, his administration and his allies’ dealings with Ukraine, including a July call in which he pressed Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to investigate Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden.

    In her testimony, she detailed a July 10 meeting she attended with senior Ukrainian officials, then-National Security Adviser John Bolton, and other U.S. officials in which the U.S. ambassador to the European Union, Gordon Sondland, raised the issue of the investigations, the people said.

    People in the room took the comments to refer to an investigation that could implicate Mr. Biden and his son, the people said. Both Ms. Hill and Mr. Bolton left the meeting with concerns about what had transpired, and Ms. Hill said Mr. Bolton instructed her to talk to NSC lawyer John Eisenberg, the people said. A spokeswoman for Mr. Bolton didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment.
    There is also an article in the NYT regarding John Bolton:

    WASHINGTON — The effort to pressure Ukraine for political help provoked a heated confrontation inside the White House last summer that so alarmed John R. Bolton, then the national security adviser, that he told an aide to alert White House lawyers, House investigators were told on Monday.

    Mr. Bolton got into a tense exchange on July 10 with Gordon D. Sondland, the Trump donor turned ambassador to the European Union, who was working with Rudolph W. Giuliani, the president’s personal lawyer, to press Ukraine to investigate Democrats, according to three people who heard the testimony.

    The aide, Fiona Hill, testified that Mr. Bolton told her to notify the chief lawyer for the National Security Council about a rogue effort by Mr. Sondland, Mr. Giuliani and Mick Mulvaney, the acting White House chief of staff, according to the people familiar with the testimony.

    “I am not part of whatever drug deal Sondland and Mulvaney are cooking up,” Mr. Bolton, a Yale-trained lawyer, told Ms. Hill to tell White House lawyers, according to two people at the deposition. (Another person in the room initially said Mr. Bolton referred to Mr. Giuliani and Mr. Mulvaney, but two others said he cited Mr. Sondland.)


    As you know, I am not a fan of John Bolton---but I do believe he has more character than truthless trump or raving rudy combined.

    More to the NYT article:
    It was not the first time Mr. Bolton expressed grave concerns to Ms. Hill about the campaign being run by Mr. Giuliani. “Giuliani’s a hand grenade who’s going to blow everybody up,” Ms. Hill quoted Mr. Bolton as saying during an earlier conversation.

    The testimony revealed in a powerful way just how divisive Mr. Giuliani’s efforts to extract damaging information about Democrats from Ukraine on President Trump’s behalf were within the White House. Ms. Hill, the senior director for European and Russian affairs, testified that Mr. Giuliani and his allies circumvented the usual national security process to run their own foreign policy efforts, leaving the president’s official advisers aware of the rogue operation yet powerless to stop it.

    At one point, she confronted Mr. Sondland, who had inserted himself into dealings with Ukraine even though it was not part of his official portfolio, according to the people informed about Ms. Hill’s testimony.

    He told her that he was in charge of Ukraine, a moment she compared to Secretary of State Alexander M. Haig Jr.’s declaration that he was in charge after the Ronald Reagan assassination attempt, according to those who heard the testimony.

    According to whom, she asked.

    The president, he answered.
    Keep in mind that before you do your normal NYT thing---much of this is quotes from sworn testimony.

    ...and may someone pull rudy's pin sooner rather than latter!
    Last edited by Dave Grubb; 10-15-2019 at 09:41 AM.
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

  14. #29
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    Odd how you are quoting from “sworn testimony” from a double-secret probation Star Chamber proceeding. There has been zero official sworn testimony released to anyone in the public, but then the NYTs undoubtedly has it’s desk in Schiff’s office, I suppose, after all they are running this inquisition in tandem, as they did the failed Russia/Trump collusion hoax.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Ex-Ambassador Marie L.Yovanovitch is the subject of her own investigation, albeit from unofficial sources and not in secret. There have been open records requests for Yovanovitch’s records at State concerning reported efforts to illegally surveil a number of American citizens, including the following: Jack Posobiec, Donald Trump Jr., Laura Ingraham, Sean Hannity, Michael McFaul (Obama’s ambassador to Russia), Dan Bongino, Ryan Saavedra, Rudy Giuliani, Sebastian Gorka, John Solomon, Lou Dobbs, Pamella Geller and Sara Carter. Of course, if she was asked about that in her secret testimony in Schiff’s subterranean inquiry room, we cannot be allowed to know.

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com...on-is-missing/

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    I can certainly agree with Dave assessment that Ukraine has historically been a cesspool of corruption, yet the Democrats seem to be basing their impeachment hopes on the foundation that Trump asking the new Ukraine leadership, who was elected upon a promise to look into their corruption, btw, to look into that is somehow unconstitutional! Incredible.

    To help understand how pervasive some in our country have participated in using Ukraine corruption, I highly recommend reading the article below exposing just some of the connections and campaign payoffs among high Democrat pols involving their own, family relations & hangers-on in Ukraine oil deals. These are D pols who on one hand earnestly profess a hatred and abject fear of producing hydrocarbons and on the other hand are in up to their eyeballs trying to produce and benefit from it in Ukraine and use U.S. aid money in their schemes.

    https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/stev...as-bidens-dems

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Finally, let me ask you, Dave, do you sincerely believe that a Ukrainian corruption king and the Chi-Coms would hire and pay a known cokehead massive amounts money for nothing? Do you think his professing that, “I did nothing wrong and I won’t do it again” is not a confession of doing something wrong and that his daddy did not know?
    ...............
    “You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out.” — Too fundamental to have an attribution


  15. #30
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    As to testimony in private being reported by the NYT; unlike trump's lapdogs who sit around in the hall waiting for an "official" handout, there are some real news outlets who understand and practice the journalistic trade.

    As for the Democrats, hang all you like----but that doesn't pull trump out of the fire.
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

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