DOJ overreaching

[Dave Grubb]

From today's WSJ:

By Timothy Puko
Updated Sept. 6, 2019 1:21 pm ET

WASHINGTON—The Justice Department has launched an antitrust investigation into four auto makers that forged an independent agreement with California on vehicle-emissions standards.

Justice Department lawyers are seeking to determine if Ford Motor Co. , Honda Motor Co. , BMW AG and Volkswagen AG violated federal competition law by agreeing with each other to follow tailpipe-emissions standards beyond those proposed by the Trump administration, according to people familiar with the situation.


Do you agree with the Trump administration’s rollback of climate policies for cars? Why or why not? Join the conversation below.

The new antitrust inquiry by the Justice Department stands to escalate tensions between Washington, Sacramento and the auto industry over plans by the Trump administration to roll back clean-air mandates on auto makers.

This is not unusual. Ca commonly has more stringent regulations than the rest of the country. As a manufacturer it is foolish to have two versions of the same basic product---and the Ca economy is far too large to ignore. Apparently trump's DOJ sees this as an affront to trump's anti-environment stance and is now going after private industry to "comply" and not to exceed. Pure BS.

[Honda]

I hope the DOJ is successful CARB has cost American consumers who don't live in California billions of dollars.

[Mike]

I hope the DOJ is successful CARB has cost American consumers who don't live in California billions of dollars.

If I am correct, the DOJ is going after the automakers, not CARB. If they were going after CARB I would applaud. I really hate having to spend more money for items to be CARB approved. If I wanted my purchases to be CARB compliant, I would move to California. That is never going to happen!

[Dave Grubb]

You are correct---which makes this much different than many of the CARB issues.

Under CARB rules, I can use non-compliant (CARB) board for the entire country without a problem---until someone ships that non-compliant product to Ca--and then I am on the hook.

Having both CARB approved and non-CARB approved inventories is not a reasonable way to operate so everything goes to CARB compliant.

[Honda]

If I am correct, the DOJ is going after the automakers, not CARB. If they were going after CARB I would applaud. I really hate having to spend more money for items to be CARB approved. If I wanted my purchases to be CARB compliant, I would move to California. That is never going to happen!

What I was saying is that I think the DOJ believes that these automakers are complicit with Californina to make all vehicles have to comply with California regulations thereby costing the rest of us billions to pay for it.

[Mike]

What I was saying is that I think the DOJ believes that these automakers are complicit with Californina to make all vehicles have to comply with California regulations thereby costing the rest of us billions to pay for it.

Oh! I fully agree with you. But, CARB is not going to pay for this. If anyone is found to be complicit, it will be the automakers. CARB is the holy grail of all the eco-wackos. There is no chance of anything going against them.

[Mike]

It amazes me how many everyday items come with a CARB disclaimer. It seems like almost everything I buy, from the keyboard I am typing on to the new rifle I just bought have CARB disclaimers saying something in the makeup of the item is a known carcinogen.

[Truckman]

It amazes me how many everyday items come with a CARB disclaimer. It seems like almost everything I buy, from the keyboard I am typing on to the new rifle I just bought have CARB disclaimers saying something in the makeup of the item is a known carcinogen.

I've noticed the same thing...Somehow CARB latched on to far more power than they should ever have been trusted with......Ben

[Honda]

Thank God that the rest of us do not have to live in the environment that the folks in the major cities of California have to live in. I understand their need to regulate because of the massive overpopulation and uncontrollable freeway congestion and so many cars that you couldn't count them if you spent the rest of your life. But fortunately for us and many of the rest of America we don't live in that environment and we don't have those problems so while I'm sympathetic with California please don't push that down our throats and moreover please don't make us pay for it. California has no right to dictate emissions requirements for the entire United States. Therefore I'm quite happy that the doj is looking into this and further I don't see it as an overreach at all I see it as a proactive step to protect us from these costs.

[mgrist]

If the DOJ finds fault and fines the automakers involved they will just pass those costs onto us the consumers. I can't imagine or guess just how much cost CARB has added to the price of cars. Like Dave said we can't ignore California their economy alone is larger than most country's, so we just pay up. It became so easy for industry to add CARB ratings and increase costs across the board that we don't even question why the ratings are even relevant on most items. That's what the DOJ needs to work on but they won't, follow the money.

[Dave Grubb]

As Mike just stated the economy (market) of CA cannot be ignored.

The economy of California is the largest in the United States, boasting a $3.018 trillion gross state product as of 2018. As a sovereign nation (2018), California would rank as the world's fifth largest economy, ahead of the United Kingdom but behind Germany.

The last rounds of CARB regs relating to urea formaldehyde added the provision of a manufacturer being libel if non-compliant product found its way to CA--no matter how far out of their control it might be.

Strangely, that bill did not include (or did any supplemental bill) funding for inspectors and enforcement. While any responsible company, would be loath to violate the rule I have not heard of any proven violations.

The net result is that everyone, in and out of CA, pays for that rule because the only reasonable policy is to comply.

As an aside---how much of the Chinese produced engineered board, which is labeled as compliant---really is compliant?

[wacojoe]

Getting tired of being “commanded & controlled” yet?

"Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority.... There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters." 
~~ Daniel Webster

“The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule it." — H.L. Mencken

“Give a bureaucrat a little power and he/she/zir will invariably exceed it.” ~~ Wacojoe