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Thread: The homeless issue in America

  1. #16
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    The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible - Arthur C. Clarke

  2. #17
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    That same process is being done in numerous cities, including Philadelphia and NYC.

    From your link:
    According to a recent post on the office's Facebook page, the sheriff's office homeless outreach team offered assistance to homeless people while cleanup crews swept away trash with brooms and front loaders.
    It is easy to condemn these people and walk away----but they are not human trash---they are troubled humans and deserve to be treated with compassion and respect.

    Seattle might learn this lesson some day.

    Added in edit:

    This is a peek into what Philadelphia is doing. NYC has a similar program. They aren't perfect, but they are trying.
    Last edited by Dave Grubb; 06-18-2019 at 01:42 PM.
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

  3. #18
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    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

  4. #19
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    It is easy to condemn these people and walk away----but they are not human trash---they are troubled humans and deserve to be treated with compassion and respect.

    Seattle might learn this lesson some day.
    Seattle isn't doing it your way so they are uncaring. The reason their are so many homeless there is because of all that Seattle does for them. Trouble is the Dems think that coddling them is the right thing to do. The city's offering treatment and job training aren't right either according to some. The drunks and the druggies need to start working a little harder at it also. Oh wait, sorry it's not PC to put the blame where it belongs.
    This is your mind on drugs!

  5. #20
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    Compassion maybe but not respect. That is earned.

    In the good old days we would have locked up the crazies and criminals (you are delusional if you dont agree that this is a large segment of their population). We taxpayers paid for the facilities and the social infrastructure over and over again. But now we only have room for pop culture pimps and the occasional russian colluder in our prisons. There is hardly room for the murderers so we will soon be asked to pay again.

    Bullchit. I'm tired of being panhandled by these people*. Lock em up or clean em up I say. Or send them to California

    *We have a family of panhandlers I'm particularly interested in. Man, woman, 3 kids. A mini van and an explorer. They sleep in the parks and Walmart parking lots and every day they all drag their suitcases out on the street. They stay in each town for a week or so (depending on weather) and then its on to the next. When we would travel around to wrestling tournaments we would see them everywhere in Colorado. Sad I agree, but they refused help. They were well known to the leo's (recall that my father in law has been the chief here for 35 years).
    "Back after 5 years. I thought you had died.

    don"


    Splitting my time between the montane and the mesas

    The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
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  6. #21
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    Compassion maybe but not respect. That is earned.
    I do not argue that respect must be earned, but a little "gift" at the outset can go along way. I have a friend that often says: "you get back what you send out"---I have found much wisdom in those words.

    You might consider the initial "gift" as an investment.
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Grubb View Post
    I do not argue that respect must be earned, but a little "gift" at the outset can go along way. I have a friend that often says: "you get back what you send out"---I have found much wisdom in those words.
    Paraphrased in Ecclesiastes 11:1 as casting one's bread upon the waters......Ben
    The future is forged on the anvil of history...The interpreter of history wields the hammer... - Unknown author...

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truckman View Post
    Paraphrased in Ecclesiastes 11:1 as casting one's bread upon the waters......Ben
    I've tried that a few times but those damn ducks eat it all up
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Grubb View Post
    I've tried that a few times but those damn ducks eat it all up
    And the scraps I can save are too soggy to hold any peanut butter......Ben
    The future is forged on the anvil of history...The interpreter of history wields the hammer... - Unknown author...

  10. #25
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    There's not a drunk, druggie, homeless person out there that has not received some sort of help. Once they get help are given a job they don't get anything else for free. to an extent. There is an army of people out there that are just plain lazy and don't want to be responsible for their own behavior. I lived with them off and on for years except I worked as did quite a for others. The majority didn't want to work. There are more people out there offering help than there are homeless. the most important thing we can do is find a place for those that don't want help. We need to quit allowing them to drag the people that want help down.
    This is your mind on drugs!

  11. #26
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    Triguy’s original post was aimed at his situation in California. Below is Victor Davis Hanson’s take on the deterioration of the situation there and his perceived causes. He likens it now to a third-world country. Not having any meaningful experience in the state, I wonder how close Hanson, a native Californian, got to the mark? There is no doubt the homeless mess has increased radically in the state, and there have to be reasons for that. I think Californians have invited it. Am I and Prof. Hanson wrong?

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/...nfrastructure/
    ...............
    “You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out.” — Too fundamental to have an attribution


  12. #27
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    That article is like a hot air balloon---on its own it went nowhere.

    The author does himself a terrible injustice. He writes at length about the multitude of problems and then wraps up the entire article in a few sentences and lays the blame at the feet of the suggested villains.

    I have always followed a personal requirement, if I am going to be critical of something in an article then I will offer a solution as well.

    The rise of the homeless has many causes---and the solution (if we decide to fix it) has even more facets.

    Added in edit:

    I don't know how anyone can talk about the homeless crisis without talking about the opioid crisis---they are deeply intertwined.
    Last edited by Dave Grubb; 06-20-2019 at 05:51 PM.
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

  13. #28
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    I just spent the morning transporting someone that lives in Oakland and is part of the City administration to boot. No his transport was not related to the addicts that we do transport there. HIPPA prevents me from saying anything else. We discussed the issue in depth. In a nutshell there are three or four major plays at stake. Drugs is part f it, Lack of higher education is another. Many long time residents with low paying jobs, The massive influx of highly paid tech workers from across the bay.

    It has created a tidal wave that has swept the bottom out from under the low income worker forcing many into the streets. He pointed out where he lives and where his parents home is, and remarked that 10 years ago this was a majority African American neighborhood that today is minority African american and it now Anglo , Asian and Indian dominant

    I went into the west end of of Oakland. The last time I was there it was run down houses, abandoned warehouses, rubble strewn fields. Today it is gleaming multi story condos, remodeled homes. Hell I couldn't afford to live there. The place looks great, major change from 8 years ago.

    That's the issue. If we who have an income of over 200K/ yr can't afford to live there where does it leave folks near the poverty line? On the streets is where. All the industrial areas are lined with old RVs and tent cities. Many of these folks work the low end service jobs and yet there is no affordable place in the bay area to live on that income. I don't see the situation getting better in the near term.
    "The only thing that we learn from torture is the depths of our own moral depravity"

  14. #29
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    This issue of "gentrification" where slums are "renewed and upgraded" is happening in cities all over the country. At first the city planners/administrations greeted it as a win win---they forgot about the people being forced out--often with no alternative housing.

    I do believe this conundrum is now understood and cites are trying to compensate with low cost housing but they are all behind the curve.
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

  15. #30
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    some more regional info on the changing demographic. Oakland is in Alameda county as is Livermore where I live

    Asians make up the largest racial group in Santa Clara and Alameda counties, according to new data by the U.S. Census Bureau.
    The data released Thursday notes that 38.3 percent of Santa Clara County and 31.8 percent of Alameda County’s total population accounted for people of Asian backgrounds.
    The 2019 projected population for Alameda County is more than 1.6 million, and more than 1.9 million for Santa Clara County.
    A closer look at the largest demographic groups per county showed that Santa Clara County was composed of 38.3 percent Asians; 31 percent (White, non-Hispanic or Latino); 25.3 percent (Hispanic/Latino); 4.1 percent (two or more races); and 2.8 percent (Black).
    For Alameda County the demographic breakdown was: 31.8 percent (Asian); 31.1 percent (White, non-Hispanic or Latino); 22.4 percent (Hispanic/Latino); 11.2 percent (Black); and 5.3 percent (two or more races).
    "The only thing that we learn from torture is the depths of our own moral depravity"

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