Socialism - Discuss

[UTAH]

Examining Socialism at the individual level may be entertaining, but it is not our reality. Even the ancient Romans understood the need to distribute Fire and Public Safety needs under a collective system - rather than rely upon individuals. What we may want to discuss is, at what levels do we accept or reject collective/socialistic systems?

Hunter

[Truckman]

Even the ancient Romans understood the need to distribute Fire and Public Safety needs under a collective system

I don't suppose I ever considered public safety as a socialistic concept, but in thinking about it, I can see how it could be classified as such...It's why we have a "public" at all, and not just many individuals living as best they can...Some aspects of socialism are not only useful in a closely banded community, but even necessary...

It's when an individual, or a group of like-minded power-mongers decide they can sell an expanded version of the collective society to the gullible public, while retaining the power to implement it, and removing individual freedoms as the cost of security, that it becomes an onerous burden rather than a common necessity......Ben

[wacojoe]

Axiom —
Everything government giveth must first be taketh from someone elseth.
Whatever government giveth, it can taketh back, as it inevitably musteth.

[mgrist]

If ever listen to the political documentaries, any of the super-rich pretty much say we need to raise the taxes on the rich. There was a rich guy on 60 minutes within the last month, it was recorded on the DVR and I didn't look at when it was recorded but he was adamant about raising the taxes on the rich, he then went into why giving the rich a tax break was ludicrous. He said he and the others,"Gates, Buffet, etc spend a lot of time trying how to get it right. That theory is socialism, redistribution of wealth.
Feeding and housing and paying the homeless, the lazy to stay that way is socialism. Government employees with their healthcare for life for four years of work along with their S.S.? from beginning untill the end.., Companies that are to big to fail. Disability pay for life because your an alcoholic. People that are cured and still collecting. I could go on and on but we are closer to socialists than the socialists.
I guess there are about a hundred million capitalists out there until they need the courts to file bankruptcy. We, of course, like you said we need fire, police, sewers, etc... Assuming im on the right track we're way past the line of capitalism and socialism. I think we've gone way too far to make amends to say I'm sorry. The Mexicans still want to get here, that's because there is work, we just don't want to do it. Cradle to grave welfare is another goldmine that needs to go. That's socialism also.

[CactusCurt]

Before we can discuss are we talking about pure socialism, democratic socialism, authoritative socialism, or a social democracy. The term I hear thrown about most by the current Democratic candidates seems to be democratic socialism. The reason I ask the question is that there are major differences between the varying types of socialism.

So are some better than others or are they all still bad? I thought the definition of a "democratic socialist" is someone who prefers to vote for a living rather than work?

[UTAH]

Nice work on this one, boys. I think I may need to increase my hours of sleep - as it works out well when I do.

In some ways, we've seen Socialism active in this issue - where some members have become excellent at weighing needs and taking appropriate action if necessary. It is appreciated and the results are respected.

Hunter

[CactusCurt]

Im not quite 60 but it seems to me we have become more socialist In those years - and i have given up thinking its stoppable. I suppose that would be proved by looking at how social welfare spending has increased in our budget. Or at the number of socialist candidates in our elections.

I see no option but to socialize medecine. The govt has interfered in the marketplace to the point that its broken and wont be fixed piecemeal. I think it will hurt innovation and quality. Guns will follow someday when the masses determine our piecemeal approach to keeping them away from criminals and misfits is broken and they vote the final solution.

Wasnt it Lenin who said the ultimate goal of socialism is communism? I dont folow world events but is there a modern example of socialism maturing to communism? Venezuela mebbe

One thing is for sure - im possibly the least engaged person on the board and have no business above decks..

[Dave Grubb]

There are many personal reasons that move me to be against socialism but I still am driven by a need for factual evidence. And therein lies the conundrum---show me the proof.

Looking at all the countries in the world and examining the data leads me to be unable to draw an obvious conclusion as to the desired negative impact of socialism. Look at the facts on your own ( here is just one measure ) albeit inclusive of a number of factors.

What I found out in doing this research is that the US scores well down in the ratings for such things as unemployment, life expectancy, et al. In every measure I could think of, relating to a quality of life, the countries that I regard as more socialistic than the US scored higher than we do.

It would be much easier to align myself closer to Joe---if only I could find some factual evidence to do that.

In closing---so Joe, my friend---show me the facts---help me out here

[CactusCurt]

There are many personal reasons that move me to be against socialism but I still am driven by a need for factual evidence. And therein lies the conundrum---show me the proof

What I found out in doing this research is that the US scores well down in the ratings for such things as unemployment, life expectancy, et al. In every measure I could think of, relating to a quality of life, the countries that I regard as more socialistic than the US scored higher than we do.

It would be much easier to align myself closer to Joe---if only I could find some factual evidence to do that.

Indian Tribes are probably the most socialist sub systems in America and the medical statistics and associated quality of life measures are terrible (gaming probably changed that but the verdict was still out when I left that world). The Indian Health Service has all the stats you could ever want. Our government doesnt do socialism well.