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Thread: The Twisted Economic Logic Of The Democrat New Breed

  1. 02-16-2019, 01:14 PM #1
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    The Twisted Economic Logic Of The Democrat New Breed

    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (AOC) is crowing about her spectacular success in thwarting a move by Amazon to locate part of its corporate offices in the NYC area adjacent to her congressional district. The planned move was slated to accommodate ~25,000 employees at an average salary of $150,000 each producing anticipated New York tax revenue therefrom @$27,000,000,000 over the next 20 years or ~$1.35B/yr. To lure Amazon to the environs, New York promised a one-time $3B tax break to Amazon.

    AOC proceeded to brag that her (she takes full credit) success in staving off the rapacious corporate giant has “saved” New Yorkers $3B, which it can now spend better on the poor and disadvantaged. Despite having an economics degree from Boston College she obviously has no clue that New York was paying nothing and therefore saved nothing and, instead, is now forced to forgo the anticipated adittional $24,000,000,000 ($27B - $3B = $24B) it would have collected, not including the massive ancillary spending benefits of salaried citizens in the area plus contractors servicing the facility. The depths of her ignorance has reached the point she thinks not giving a tax break translates into making money she and her ilk can spend!

    Can anything serve better to illustrate the economic stupidity of the new generation of leftist nitwits who are driving the Democrat Party to its promised land? It’s so stupid even Cuomo & deBlasio understand how ignorant these people are.
    ...............
    “You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out.” — Too fundamental to have an attribution

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  2. 02-16-2019, 01:54 PM #2
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    It's a damn good thing you are a lawyer, cause your math sucks!

    If you want to give it an honest look, NYC wage tax is 3.8% if you live in NYC. NY State income tax is 6.28% if you live in NY State. That is part of the reason why I have to fight all the rest of the commuters

    ....and NO I am not defending the Bronx bimbo!
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
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  3. 02-16-2019, 03:04 PM #3
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    Not my math, but the math of Coumo’s minions, my friend. What I heard and repeated was a bit wrong though, as the $27B tax revenue for New York is projected over 25 years instead of the 20 years I misremembered. You can adjust from there, but nothing in calculations changes that you can’t spend tax breaks you don’t give to companies not paying them because they are not opening the new facility.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/amaz...ue-loss-2019-2

    An article from Dave’s god might be fun to read though in which it is explain much of the local hate toward Amazon is traced to the compan’s resistance to cherished unionization —

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/14/n...q2-queens.html

    ...Over time, opposition to Amazon had spread from the specifics of the deal to the company’s corporate practices. Elected officials and activists in New York drew attention to the company’s anti-union stance and its work with federal immigration officials — positions unpopular with Democratic leaders across the country...
    The ever fair minded publication termed Amazon in its article, “voracious.”

    Penny wise, pound foolish with a bit of spite thrown in for good measure...not that I’m opposed to a good kick in Besos’ ribs now and then.
    ...............
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  4. 02-16-2019, 03:16 PM #4
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    I guess if the NYT is my "god" it would follow that the Guardian must be yours.

    The math still is wrong.

    Just for giggles---this entire scheme is neither new or unusual--it goes on all the time. The sad reality is that if anyone ever does an audit at 5 years or 10 years I never see a word about it. Just as demonstrated here, fake news can be generated by anyone---including politicians--and unless someone is checking they get away with it.

    In my opinion these schemes are no more than smoke and mirrors.
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis
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  5. 02-16-2019, 04:06 PM #5
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    A bit to oblique for me to follow. If you have better estimations than the government actuaries, maybe you will share.
    We can agree that many of these projections of viability are bogus, as nearly all those for green projects have shown, but I think there is reason to believe the future of Amazon is a bit more secure.
    ...............
    “You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out.” — Too fundamental to have an attribution

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  6. 02-17-2019, 08:39 AM #6
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    At $1.35 B/yr from 25,000 employees that would be an average of $54,000 in tax/per employee.

    As stated non-residents don't pay the NYC wage tax. Residents are taxed at a rate of 3.8%, thus for the average salary of $150,000 NYC collects $5,700.00----what am I missing?
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis
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  7. 02-17-2019, 09:35 AM #7
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    The calculation in simple yearly terms is reduced from 20 years to 25 years ($27.5b divided by 25k employees divided by 25 years = $44,000/yr. per employee) But, as is explained in a dense actuarial tome by Cuomo’s tax planners, total state & city tax revenues are not nearly so simple when they include inflationary factors, cost of money over years and ancillary economic benefits accruing to the taxing entities. I have had extensive experience talking to actuaries in my past life figuring values of payouts to plaintiffs in high-dollar lawsuits. They always lost me and do in this case even more so. I took the expedient of a simple calculation, which it is not. I refer you to Cuomo’s publication for your advanced math skills to mull over —

    http://demause.net/wp/wp-content/upl...ort_Amazon.pdf

    (From the Business Insider article cited above, which I encourage reading for other criticisms)
    ...Cuomo's office said when the HQ2 project was announced in November that it would bring in $27.5 billion in new tax revenue over 25 years, largely based on an economic-impact study commissioned by the governor (another was commissioned by the city but not released). Of that amount, $14 billion would go to the state, and $13.5 billion would go to New York City...
    There is a lot of fodder to nitpick future projections, yet nothing changes the fact that nothing in the cancelled deal gives back $3B to dump into government projects like AOC spouts...quite the opposite in fact.
    ...............
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  8. 02-17-2019, 10:35 AM #8
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    There is a lot of fodder to nitpick future projections, yet nothing changes the fact that nothing in the cancelled deal gives back $3B to dump into government projects like AOC spouts...quite the opposite in fact.
    ...and on that we can agree.

    Regarding the numbers---their model allows for none of those 25,000 workers living across the river in NJ
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis
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  9. 02-17-2019, 03:39 PM #9
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    Like all politicians, I am certain Herr Cuomo put together his green eye-shade boys with instructions to make every questionable assumption in whatever favor it takes to make him look good. I am familiar with the process having hired my accounting whores for years to make my cases to juries, but, still in this case importing tens of thousands of high-paying jobs to the area from the most profitable corporation in the world would be a dream to most communities even if they had to induce it with a few sizable tax breaks initially. This was a no-brainer, which is why the brainless cheered its demise.
    ...............
    “You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out.” — Too fundamental to have an attribution

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