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Thread: California Fires

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by wacojoe View Post
    Below is an article I found informative on why some insist on calling a forest fire not a forest fire. Apparently to some if houses & buildings are nestled in a forest, it no longer meets their definition of a forest. Of course, no matter what humans name it, it burns just as hot and completely.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/11/...fact-checking/

    This is no longer defined as “forest.”



    But this is what can happen even if you redefine it as “wildland-urban interface/intermix.”

    It has more to do with the dispatch Fire CAD. Zonal classification helps determine what types of resources will be needed and potential threats. A true wild land fire is hand crews bulldozers and 4x4 fire engines. Urban interface will require the addition of type 1 city engines for structure protection and law enforcement for traffic control and evacuation.
    "The only thing that we learn from torture is the depths of our own moral depravity"

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truckman View Post
    Billy was last here at 18:15 on 11/17/1018, yesterday evening......Ben
    Thank you, sir! I know there's someplace I can look but it took me a while just to figure out the ignore feature. The sad part is if I go to do it again it will take just as long. You saved me some frustration.
    This is your mind on drugs!

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgrist View Post
    Thank you, sir!
    At your service......Ben
    The future is forged on the anvil of history...The interpreter of history wields the hammer... - Unknown author...

  4. #49
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    I received the email below from one of my radical denialist sources (Cfact) and am eating it up, especially in the face of Gov. Brown’s move in the last days to repeal much of the enviro prohibitions written about. You folks who live in California are invited to disabuse me of my & Cfact’s prejudices showing where we went wrong —

    California Governor Jerry Brown has had eight years to protect the Golden State from devastating wildfires.

    What did he do instead? Use the fires to prattle on about global warming ideology.

    Brown and the radical Leftists and Greens whose disastrous policies he pushed over real-world solutions have much to answer for.

    Does anyone truly buy into the notion that California would have been spared these tragic fires if only we'd never had the light bulb, transportation, manufacturing, heating or refrigeration? If only we'd subsidized more inefficient wind and solar, or battery-powered cars?

    CFACT's Paul Driessen lays out the sorry facts at CFACT.org:
    The hard, incontrovertible reality is that California is and always has been a largely arid state, afflicted on repeated occasions by prolonged droughts, interspersed with periods of intense rainfall, and buffeted almost every autumn by powerful winds that can whip forest fires into infernos...

    In 2016, Governor Brown vetoed a bipartisan wildfire management bill that had unanimously passed the state Assembly and Senate. For decades, radical environmentalists have demanded – and legislators, regulators and judges have approved – “wildlands preservation” and “fires are natural” policies. Tree thinning has been banned, resulting in thousands of skinny, fire-susceptible trees growing where only a few hundred should be present. Even removing diseased, dead and burned trees has been prohibited.

    CFACT's Bonner Cohen reviews California's history of feckless forest management:
    State and federal forests in California are full of dead and diseased trees that should be removed, along with overgrown underbrush. But, to the extent that these forests are being thinned, it is at a snail’s pace. Prescribed burns, fire breaks, and adequate roads allowing firefighters quick access into forests are all a part of proper forest management but are largely absent from California’s government-managed forests. People managing forests on private land must deal with the state’s Byzantine bureaucracy to obtain permits enabling them to carry out fire prevention measures on their land.

    As a result, the state’s forests and adjacent grasslands are a tinder box waiting to explode.

    Driessen explains where to go from here:

    We clearly need less hidebound ideology, greater compassion and respect for human and animal life – and greater willingness to find bipartisan ways to deal with the perpetually arid conditions in California and throughout the West, via responsible and scientific management of our forest heritage.

    Historians have found no conclusive evidence that the Emperor Nero was playing his lyre during Rome's great fire. He wasn't even in the city.

    Future historians will have no problem documenting that Governor Brown and the Greens chose ideology over effective forest management, fire fighting and prevention.

    It's all right there in print and video.

    Shame.


    Referenced in the email I received —

    http://www.cfact.org/2018/11/17/gree...eid=7e1fe76a24

    http://www.cfact.org/2018/11/19/blam...eid=7e1fe76a24

    Faced with the worst summer fire season in 10 years, Gov. Jerry Brown is proposing broad new changes to California’s logging rules that would allow landowners to cut larger trees and build temporary roads without obtaining a permit as a way to thin more forests across the state.

    The proposal — which has the support of the timber industry but is being opposed by more than a dozen environmental groups — would represent one of the largest changes to the state’s timber harvesting rules in the past 45 years.
    https://www.santacruzsentinel.com/20...ACxd542Dp2YsAA
    ...............
    “You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out.” — Too fundamental to have an attribution


  5. #50
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    While you are choking the fact the governor veto the bill please chew on this:
    A governor’s veto of a bill or a budget item does not have to be the final word. It can be overridden by a supermajority vote in each house of the Legislature — a constitutional provision often overlooked and rarely invoked. Its use can have a profound impact.
    So it seems the majority couldn't get the job done.
    Fred

    "Everyday I beat my own previous record for number of consecutive days I've
    stayed alive."

    'Take care of yourself, and each other.'

  6. #51
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    BTW did you see the idea that these fires were started by lasers?
    Fred

    "Everyday I beat my own previous record for number of consecutive days I've
    stayed alive."

    'Take care of yourself, and each other.'

  7. #52
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    A little more sad history of California political idiocy on wildfires and “climate change” puffery —

    https://canadafreepress.com/article/...eid=7e1fe76a24

    This article confirms that Brown vetoed a bill passed unanimously in both houses of the California legislature, but I am unsure how that can happen without being overridden. Whether it was/is Brown’s incompetence, the legislatures’ or both, it is clear irresponsible governance is taking place with regard to this issue and it is costing many lives and much resources in the name of some ideal which has never existed — a happy forest loaded to the gills forever with fuel.
    ...............
    “You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out.” — Too fundamental to have an attribution


  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by wacojoe View Post
    A little more sad history of California political idiocy on wildfires and “climate change” puffery —

    https://canadafreepress.com/article/...eid=7e1fe76a24

    This article confirms that Brown vetoed a bill passed unanimously in both houses of the California legislature, but I am unsure how that can happen without being overridden. Whether it was/is Brown’s incompetence, the legislatures’ or both, it is clear irresponsible governance is taking place with regard to this issue and it is costing many lives and much resources in the name of some ideal which has never existed — a happy forest loaded to the gills forever with fuel.

    knowing the legislature, the bill was probably bloated with budget busting constituent pandering stark raving bull**** which is usually why he veto's stuff that on the surface looks good but underneath its a turd.
    "The only thing that we learn from torture is the depths of our own moral depravity"

  9. #54
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    Well Gov Brown has admitted that Trump was right, he has started to ease the rules so that Cali can maybe prevent more of these horrible fires. I really feel for the people who have lost it all as well as those with respiratory problems who are having trouble breathing. This should have been done long ago, planned by those out in the field or have field experience like our very own TriGuy, instead of some stuffed shirt in an office far far away.
    Faced with the worst summer fire season in 10 years, Gov. Jerry Brown is proposing broad new changes to California’s logging rules that would allow landowners to cut larger trees and build temporary roads without obtaining a permit as a way to thin more forests across the state.
    The proposal — which has the support of the timber industry but is being opposed by more than a dozen environmental groups — would represent one of the largest changes to the state’s timber harvesting rules in the past 45 years.


    The legislative session ends for the year next Friday. On Thursday, the details were still being negotiated by legislative leaders and the governor’s office behind the scenes and had not yet been formally introduced in a bill or put up for a vote.
    “They are trying to get to some kind of a deal,” said Rich Gordon, the president of the California Forestry Association, a timber industry group. “They are looking at what can get done politically.”
    Under Brown’s proposal, private landowners would be able to cut trees up to 36 inches in diameter — up from the current 26 inches — on property 300 acres or less without getting a timber harvest permit from the state, as long as their purpose was to thin forests to reduce fire risk. They also would be able to build roads of up to 600 feet long without getting a permit, as long as they repaired and replanted them.
    Timber industry officials say the changes are needed to cut red tape and increase incentives for landowners, particularly in the Sierra Nevada, to thin pine and fir forests that have become dangerously overgrown after 100 years of fire fighting.


    Before the Gold Rush in the 1850s, forests burned naturally every few decades in California from lightning strikes or Indian tribes’ burning. That cleared dead wood and left mostly larger, healthy trees. But without those fires for the past century or more, today’s forests are much more dense, with up to 10 times as many trees per acre in some places. The dense brush and increased numbers of small, spindly trees cause fires burn much hotter now and climb more easily into the tops of trees, creating massive blazes that burn for months.
    Thinning forests often is a money loser, however, because taking out the small brush and diseased or insect-ridden trees costs money but brings little or no economic return. Allowing landowners to cut some larger healthy trees, which can be turned into lumber, provides them a return, supporters say.
    “How do you get people to go in and take out stuff that has no value?” said Gordon. “If you allow them to get some value — to break even — on the cost of thinning, you can get more thinning projects done.”https://www.santacruzsentinel.com/20...-thin-forests/

  10. #55
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    Eric throw your ideas in the hat for them so that maybe with your experience they will listen to common sense rules and regulations.

  11. #56
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    Learning more about wild lands fires and how they affect communities. The article asks the question: why are the structures burned but the trees surrounding them not? Interesting answers posited here —

    https://www.latimes.com/local/califo...120-story.html

    ...............
    “You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out.” — Too fundamental to have an attribution


  12. #57
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    When I lived in the mountains Cal Fire was adamant in enforcing defensible space. They would issue LE101 notices to non compliant properties with a 30 day notice to correct deficiencies. if at the 30 day limit the property was not in compliance a citation would be issued. The insurance companies got into the act and would ask to see the Cal Fire letter of compliance. if you did not have it they would threaten to cancel your homeowners insurance. It was a big Stick approach. My community had built a fuel reduction zone around itself and the HOA enforced no vegetation within 30 feet of the house and for 100' out no latter fuels and trees were trimmed up to 10 feet from the ground. you also had to keep roofs and gutters cleared and no clutter under any deck. I also kept metallic duct tape rolls to cover my soffet vents and ground vents to keep out ebers if there was a fire. We also had the houses spaced apart by usually 200' on the lots. if you look at Paradise it was minimum space between the homes, not savable.
    "The only thing that we learn from torture is the depths of our own moral depravity"

  13. #58
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    Has anybody heard from our member Billy Rightwing since the fires started? I am not familiar with what area he lived in or if his location was even close to any of the fires out there.

  14. #59
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    Just read an article saying that now that the fires are done with some areas there is just no housing for all of the people living in tent cities in a Walmart parking lot. Seems like there was some law enacted in 1978 that regulated the amount of money that Cities and Counties could spend on new housing? Sorry folks, but that is a bit overreaching to say the least. Does this now mean that since the existing home is gone, they can not rebuild or maybe just a few at a time? Makes no sense to me and these people need help, while the media is focusing on a caravan of illegals wanting to physically break into our Country. Just my opinion but I think we should make the focus on American citizens who have just lost everything and could use a massive dose of help.

    As firefighters in California begin to get a handle on the deadly wildfires that have ravaged both ends of the state and destroyed thousands of homes this past week, those affected will soon face the potentially daunting task of having to find permanent housing in a state already experiencing a massive housing shortage.


    The Camp Fire in Northern California decimated the town of Paradise, killing at least 71, and destroying 90 percent of its housing stock, turning homeowners there into refugees.


    Some have been staying in motels, shelters or with family and friends before they attempt to find permanent housing or rebuilding their homes.
    But California ranks 49th in the U.S. in housing units per capita. Factors include the passage of Proposition 13 in 1978, which limited the amount of money cities and counties could spend on new housing, and the job booms in technology and other fields that have attracted residents from out of state faster than new housing can be made available.


    As a result, “There is no way that the current housing stock can accommodate the people displaced by the fire,” said Casey Hatcher, a spokeswoman for Butte County, where Paradise and surrounding towns ravaged by the Camp Fire are located. “We recognize that it’s going to be some time before people rebuild, and there is an extremely large housing need.”.......


    Butte County was already plagued by a severe housing shortage before the Camp Fire, Ed Mayer, executive director of the county’s housing agency told the Sacramento Bee, adding the vacancy rate was at 2 percent.


    Many Paradise residents will face difficulties rebuilding their homes because of their limited financial means, he said.
    “Big picture, we have 6,000, possibly 7,000 households who have been displaced and who realistically don’t stand a chance of finding housing again in Butte County,” Mayer said. “I don’t even know if these households can be absorbed in California.”
    https://www.foxnews.com/us/californi...housing-crisis

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by TxMusky View Post
    Has anybody heard from our member Billy Rightwing since the fires started? I am not familiar with what area he lived in or if his location was even close to any of the fires out there.
    Billy was last on 11-20-2018 9:08 PM...He lives near Pelican Bay...His son is a prison guard there......Ben
    The future is forged on the anvil of history...The interpreter of history wields the hammer... - Unknown author...

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