CDC Stats Show Guns Used Defensively 3.6X More Often Than By Criminals

[wacojoe]

https://www.dailywire.com/news/29724...-ryan-saavedra

[mgrist]

It's probably a lot higher on just the reasons specified but it will never fly. The first dig will be on the publication it's in no matter how truthful it is. I've never heard of them but that hardly matters. Hell the truth hardly matters in anything anymore, but that's a thread of it's own.

[Kevin]

Well, before we get too excited, let's step back for a moment.

First, this is a report about what someone else has found. As such, it is an argument that relies on the credibility of Kleck, not the CDC. Kleck has been called out for skewing data in the past, so his credibility is extremely suspect.

Second, we don't know how Kleck arrived at his conclusions. We only know that the reporter is telling us that Kleck concluded something, not how he got to that point. See point above.

This article is a lot less persuasive once you realize how much you are not being told.

[Billy_Rightwing]

Lets not make a big deal out of any argument we read now days, fake news vs real news makes for a lot of back and fourth.

[wacojoe]

That the CDC buried their data is significant. Now that they are exposed anyone is free to interpret them as Kleck has done. Skewer Kleck’s conclusions if you can. Let’s hear from the anti-gun forces and their assessment. The ball is in their court. We will see if their prior figure of 100,000 defensive uses of guns against the millions presented by Kleck holds up. Biiig difference, hard to miss.

The CDC stats used here are nearly two decades old, so there’s a starting point for attack, plus it’s just a survey unverified against facts.

Let’s do our own survey here — how many have used a firearm in a defensive situation. I have for one and glad I had it although I did not fire it. There is one thing you can say with certainty — damned near every one old enough to use one in one of those school situations under attack by a gunman wished for one thing other than being gone...their own gun.

[Truckman]

Let’s do our own survey here — how many have used a firearm in a defensive situation.

Carrying is a "use," and appearing in public is a "defensive situation" in today's world...So I can answer "yes" for every time I've stepped outside my home since sometime in the mid-seventies......Ben

[Kevin]

Who says the data was "buried"? All I can see is that it is unpublished. There are lots of reasons that could be surmised apart from a conspiracy of silence.

Moreover, we don't know what Kleck did to obtain his results, so what we have is a data set of unknown quality, being analyzed by unknown methods.

Pass.

[TxMusky]

I have never had to fire mine at anybody as defensive goes.

As far as data goes, just taking some of the anti gun crowd numbers they spew out, 300 million guns? Okay lets go with that, 300 million guns and just a mass shooting once a year is low odds. Again, not saying that one event is not tragic, just looking at the numbers. 1 in 300 million.

[Kevin]

67 mass shootings so far this year as of April 22.

346 mass shootings last year.

https://www.abc15.com/news/data/mass...curred-in-2018

Of course, you'd need to rely on what the Center for Gun Violence calls a mass shooting. There is no standard definition. But since you mentioned you were taking the gun control people at their word, that's their word.

[mgrist]

Witnesses said he was nude and got away on foot. He was last seen walking South on Murfreesboro Pike.

The guy in Tennessee was another nut case, how many of these shootings have similar scenarios. There's got to be another way, this everybody has rights thing has gone to far. Everybody is not equal and everybody isn't entitled to a gun just because we have a second amendment, some where down the road common sense is going to have to enter the equation.
For grins I looked up mass killings in Africa, good lord. The Zulu chief ordered the Bantu killed and over the next ten years 1.5 million Bantu were killed. And on it went, I didn't even bother with dates. In other words guns are not the problem, machetes are the weapon of choice in Africa. People are the problem and you can't fix that problem, you can however maybe tell crazy people no! That will at least get rid of the spur of the moment shootings. From what I've read their are more guns then people in the states so anybody wanting one can get one. Banning guns in my opinion is not the answer, we'd be better off making sure everybody had a gun and the knowledge on how to use it, except for the crazy people anyway.

[Kevin]

An alternative interpretation is that people use whatever is close to hand in order to kill other people. In that case, restricting the lethality of the weapon that is closest to hand in the US (which is not a machete but rather, with 300 million guns floating around, a firearm of some sort) is not such a bad idea.

Americans think in binary terms. Is it the gun or is it the person? I think it is both.

[Dork]

Don't ya love how the majority of "mass shootings" are in democrat held areas of the country and lots of them are in places like Chicago.....where you never ever hear about it any more...and where they have the strictest gun control measures in America.....

And where you have less gun control, more freedom you have way less shootings.....

I"ve had to use my carry weapon, have had to pull it from it's holster, have had to point it at people a time or 2 and even had to pull the trigger.....

You will find weapons all around my house, but nobody knows they re there except the family and close friends, yet nobody has ever been shot in my house, not one of those evil weapons have ever gotten up and raped the wife and shot me....

67 mass shootings so far this year as of April 22.

346 mass shootings last year.

https://www.abc15.com/news/data/mass...curred-in-2018

Of course, you'd need to rely on what the Center for Gun Violence calls a mass shooting. There is no standard definition. But since you mentioned you were taking the gun control people at their word, that's their word.

[Dork]

Why do drunks still drive....why do you drink any amount of ETOH and get behind a steering wheel...

Nobody blames the vehicle for the drunk driver, but you blame the gun for what the person did....and make excuses for the person.....

Hold the person responsible....stop blaming a hunk of plastic and metal that you are afraid of....

An alternative interpretation is that people use whatever is close to hand in order to kill other people. In that case, restricting the lethality of the weapon that is closest to hand in the US (which is not a machete but rather, with 300 million guns floating around, a firearm of some sort) is not such a bad idea.

Americans think in binary terms. Is it the gun or is it the person? I think it is both.

[Kevin]

Yet we have modified vehicles drastically over the years to make them safer as well as holding people responsible.

[Wannabe]

Take a look at London. Guns are banned. Knife attacks was going through the roof (mostly by immigrants) so they banned knives. Now that knives are banned acid attacks are on the rise. Blaming objects does not work.