Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: The burden of a tax

  1. #1
    Join Date
    10-23-01
    Posts
    17,114

    The burden of a tax

    This is to help Tx and any others understand who pays a tax. The answer almost always is that both producers and consumers end up with some of the burden. "Common sense" would say that the cost of the tax is passed along to the consumer and partially, that is true. However, to an economist, the overall burden is not just the money collected by a tax. The burden also includes the loss to society of production that a tax imposes on producers.

    That's where "common sense" goes off the rails. The full accounting to society of a tax that has been imposed includes more than just the revenue raised.

    Begin by understanding what a demand schedule is. This is a line showing how much of a good is demanded by a consumer at a given price. As the price changes, the quantity demanded changes. For a normal good, this is an inverse relationship - as price increases, quantity demanded decreases and vice versa. The graph of this relationship is a negatively sloped line.

    A supply schedule shows what suppliers are willing to supply at various price points. For a normal good, this would be a positively sloped line since a higher price would result in more of that good being supplied to the market.

    Next, we need to understand the concept of price elasticity. This is defined as the responsiveness of either production or consumption with respect to price changes. For both of these groups, a good can be either price elastic or price inelastic.

    "Elastic" means that a given percentage change in price leads to a greater percentage change in either consumption or production. For example, price elasticity in consumption might be seen in meat consumption. As the price of beef rises, people move their consumption into lesser grades meat or substitute chicken for beef. If this was graphed out with price on the independent x axis and consumption on the dependent y axis, it would be a fairly low sloped negatively sloped line, higher on the left side and lower on the right.

    Please refer to the following links as I trot you through this:

    https://www.economicshelp.org/microe...ticity-demand/

    https://www.economicshelp.org/microe...ticity-supply/

    Price inelasticity of demand looks different. In this case, larger percentage changes in price are met with less responsiveness by demand. This is a more vertical line.

    Price elasticity of supply measures responsiveness of producers to a price change. An elastic supply means that producers are highly responsive to changes in price. This would be a positively sloped line at a shallow angle. If producers are relatively unresponsive to changes in price, this would be a steeply sloped positive line.

    The effect of a tax is different for consumers and producers. A tax is merely a change in price to a consumer, so their demand schedule is unchanged and we merely move to a new price/consumption point on the existing demand schedule.

    The effect of a tax on a producer is much different. Look towards the bottom of the first link I provided. In the case of a producer, a whole new supply schedule is needed since he or she finds that the cost of production is now higher at every quantity produced. This means that their supply schedule shifts to a new supply schedule (a whole new line showing price/quantity relationships). The shift is inward toward the price axis, showing that for each price, less quantity is supplied due to the overall increased cost of production.

    As you can see at the link I've provided, the relative burden of a tax consists of two parts - the cost of the tax in monetary terms and the loss to society of production that the newer supply schedule imposes.

    Common sense would tell you that only consumers bear the burden of the tax. This is not true. The total accounting for the burden of the tax consists of the monetary part and the loss of production that a now artificially higher cost of production imposes on producers. The relative price elasticities of demand and supply show how much of the burden of the tax falls on producers and consumers. But for almost all goods, the burden will be shared.

    4. Tax incidence. If demand is price inelastic, then a higher tax will lead to higher prices for consumers (e.g. tobacco tax). The tax incidence will mainly be borne by consumers. If demand is price elastic, firms will face a bigger burden, and consumers will have a lower tax burden.
    The problem with "common sense" is that people don't know enough about a topic to be able to understand that the topic is more complex than they, with their superficial knowledge, realize. They don't know how much they don't know.

    So they end up looking foolish.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    10-20-03
    Posts
    15,885
    You still do not get it. Where are the mods, I thought we were not supposed to call each other names?

    Just kidding, I do not mind, I have been called or "referred to" as being many things in my life and it has not hurt me one bit. I take great pleasure in knowing that I got under your skin so bad, that it forced you to go out and look up several links to things and write a small novel that after reading the first and last paragraph, decided that it was not worth my time to read the body of the book. You did a whole lot of stuff for such a simple solution. Maybe that is why this old world is so screwed up, you scholars keep missing the easy stuff. Remember, it is the highly edumacated fools that have driven the taxes and the debt up. Simple morons like me are not allowed to participate as we are considered too stupid to comprehend the vastness of the problem, yet we seem to have a balanced checkbook, and have all of our bills paid every month.

    Maybe the "high and mighty" smug folks could take a look at what works and KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid as they used to say. I'll just keep on keeping on with my dumb ass ways, while the rest of the geniuses keep wallowing in the mud.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    10-23-01
    Posts
    17,114
    I think it is the uneducated fools who keep electing representatives that spend spend spend that have driven the debt up.

    Your post is a paean to continuing to stay uninformed even when someone has gone out and gotten the information for you.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    10-20-03
    Posts
    15,885
    Nope, I simply refuse to worry about something that I can not at this time, change. The young people in America, when they are not eating Tide pods or snorting condoms up their noses, are voting to become a socialist nation, the liberals are worried more about illegals than they are about America, and the rest of the folks are working so hard to condemn Trump and blame Russia for everything, that us dummies do not have a chance to mention anything we are worried about.

    I am fully content to remain stupid and happy and to spend my spare time inflaming the liberals with common sense solutions to complex problems. Of course they do not listen and we still have the problems, yet I and those like me are the stupid ones?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    10-23-01
    Posts
    17,114
    Common sense is now a substitute for learning about an issue?

    OK, guess you won't mind me building a nuclear reactor in your back yard. I'll just use common sense. No need to learn about stuff. I'll just go by my gut.

    I really really hope the other members on this site are watching you discuss this. It should tell them a great deal about how to treat your opinions.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    10-23-01
    Posts
    17,114
    Oh, and you might want to reconsider this statement you just made:

    I am fully content to remain stupid and happy and to spend my spare time inflaming the liberals with common sense solutions to complex problems.
    Stupid: having or showing a great lack of intelligence or common sense.

    You pretty much just told everyone that you DON'T have any common sense when you called yourself stupid.

    I don't think of you as stupid. I think you are ignorant on this subject. Stupid indicates a lack of capacity to understand. Ignorant just means you have not yet learned about a subject. I think you have plenty of capacity to learn but refuse to because that might mean admitting you don't know something. It's OK, Tx. Lots of people don't know about fracing so why do you feel you need to denigrate people who know things you don't?

    You seem very insecure.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    10-21-01
    Location
    San Antonio, Tx.
    Posts
    18,387
    I found Kevin’s OP quite instructive and fresh to me at least. Trariffs though, have more to do than with economic effects alone. They can be a tool and leverage in international political negotiations, which I think is a big part of Trump’s motivation in this round of them. You can see more of that in the Chinese response aiming directly at Trump’s base to pressure him in return.
    ...............
    “You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out.” — Too fundamental to have an attribution


  8. #8
    Join Date
    12-21-17
    Posts
    872
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
    I think it is the uneducated fools who keep electing representatives that spend spend spend that have driven the debt up.

    Your post is a paean to continuing to stay uninformed even when someone has gone out and gotten the information for you.
    That's how democrats get elected............free obama phones....

  9. #9
    Wannabe is offline Nov 5, 1946 - Nov 19, 2018
    A Friend Who Will be Missed.
    May He Rest In Peace
    Join Date
    10-25-15
    Posts
    1,465
    Quote Originally Posted by Dork View Post
    That's how democrats get elected............free obama phones....
    Someone once said "It's hard to beat Santa Clause.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    10-21-01
    Location
    Columbia, S.C.
    Posts
    14,620
    Thanks Kevin, I won't retain much of it but hopefully it will ring a bell when I need it.
    This is your mind on drugs!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •