Der Zeitgeist

[TxMusky]

Being gay is not a race, they are just people. Being a biker is not a race, they are just people. See where I am going with this?

I have seen signs posted at most commercial businesses which reads "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone". Now you think that nobody has any rights if they are not in line with yours?

The problem is you liberals see differences in people for certain things, different skin colors, different sex partners, and so on. Your whole platform relies on somebody hating somebody else for a predetermined reason, which is why you like to throw out the "isms, ists and the ics" as I call them, racism, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, etc. You need SOME difference to draw which group you are going to toss the offender into, simply because they have a different point if view.

It baffles you liberals to no end that Conservatives do not see differences in that way. We see differences in IDEAS and policies, not color, sex creed or any other file folder you can think up. You make things up that are just not so in order to further your agenda of hatred. We need only two qualifications, ideas and policies, nothing else. We are all equal in every way, same body, same organs, same needs for survival. You just can not fathom that we can all get along without the need for sub categories to file people away in and that is why your rants often fall on deaf ears or fails to materialize into the volcano you want it to be. We actually like everybody and you just can not stand it, you NEED to be able to make somebody hate us, in order to have a platform to preach from.

We are all deplorables and as a group stand in unison to throw your side a very large wet raspberry, we do not need a petty talking point to figure out who gets to stand where, we are all standing side by side.

[Wannabe]

Was the baker against the idea of making a Wedding Cake for a gay couple or was it against how they wanted it decorated? Does anyone know?

[mgrist]

they sold the gay community all sorts of cakes and goodies from their store before. This time they refused to make the cake because it went against their beliefs, nothing more.

Had to have been how it was decorated or maybe they had a religious Epiphany that day?
I know you can put a sign up that says you can refuse to do business with anybody you want, I also know you'll be sitting there with the Bakers whining about how unfair it is after the government and a hundred activists come in and put you out of business.
I think you ought to be able to refuse business personally but I know what that turns into. I don't know the same conservatives as Tex, all the one's that I know are about as bigoted as the people they judge. I still cringe at the flaming gays and the attention that they have to have, drives me crazy. And the thugs with the intimidation that they push I'd just as soon hit them across the head with a bat. But I don't, live and let live is what I try and do, doesn't mean I'm a saint though.

[Kevin]

Being gay is not a race, they are just people. Being a biker is not a race, they are just people. See where I am going with this?

I have seen signs posted at most commercial businesses which reads "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone". Now you think that nobody has any rights if they are not in line with yours?

Oh, brother! Do you really think that a sign that says "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" can ACTUALLY be enforced? Better read the Civil Rights Act:

201. (a) All persons shall be entitled to the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, and privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, as defined in this section, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin.

What I'm saying is that in a few years, that will also include sexual orientation. And the reason is that treating gays differently than anyone else is simply not acceptable any more. It isn't about "all beliefs", it is about this specific one, that gays are no different than anyone else. And people won't be allowed to find some fig leaf to justify discriminating against them.

The rest of your post is your usual rant about how mean liberals are and isn't worth responding to.

[Kevin]

Had to have been how it was decorated or maybe they had a religious Epiphany that day?
I know you can put a sign up that says you can refuse to do business with anybody you want, I also know you'll be sitting there with the Bakers whining about how unfair it is after the government and a hundred activists come in and put you out of business.
I think you ought to be able to refuse business personally but I know what that turns into. I don't know the same conservatives as Tex, all the one's that I know are about as bigoted as the people they judge. I still cringe at the flaming gays and the attention that they have to have, drives me crazy. And the thugs with the intimidation that they push I'd just as soon hit them across the head with a bat. But I don't, live and let live is what I try and do, doesn't mean I'm a saint though.

I'm with you on the cringing. Keep that stuff private. Gay pride is fine, but shoving fringe behavior in everyone's faces is just not right.

[TxMusky]

WOW, I am now bad talking liberals. Actually I was trying to point out that we do not have little sections in a rolodex that is divided into Black, Mexican, Female, Gay, Asian, etc. they are just lumper together in one big pile labeled as "friends". We do not see color or base our friends on a certain way of organizing them. You come up and punch my friend in the face I don say "Hey, why did you punch my black friend", you just ask why they punched your friend.

My point is that I like all kinds of people, good and bad in all groups, it really is that simple. My disdain for liberals is about their ideas and policies, not their skin color or sexual orientation. WHo cares.

[Kevin]

The issue is not how you personally treat gays.

The issue is whether it is OK for others to discriminate against them. I say no, you are OK with it.

I'm saying that in 10 years, it will be a moot point since the next generation coming up won't stand for it. No matter the fig leaf being used.

[TxMusky]

Hey, I am saying that everybody has the right to not do something if it is against their beliefs as long as it is done in a nice way. You and I like to hunt, we should not make it mandatory that somebody HAS to go hunting.

WHo really cares, it would have been so much easier to go to the other bakery, like any other party would have done if refused service at some store. If somebody does not want my business, I will be happy to take my money elsewhere.

[Kevin]

Hey, I am saying that everybody has the right to not do something if it is against their beliefs as long as it is done in a nice way. You and I like to hunt, we should not make it mandatory that somebody HAS to go hunting.

WHo really cares, it would have been so much easier to go to the other bakery, like any other party would have done if refused service at some store. If somebody does not want my business, I will be happy to take my money elsewhere.

Hunting is not an appropriate analogy. What is being discussed is whether a public accommodation can discriminate against gays. It is already illegal to deny public accommodations on the basis of race, religion, national origin, etc., so you don't have the right to deny services on these basis no matter how nice you are.

"Who really cares" is normally said by someone who has not been the subject of discrimination.

It doesn't matter that you personally would take your business elsewhere. Blacks could have taken their business elsewhere back under Jim Crow. They decided that they would not be treated as second class. The same is going to happen here because acceptance of discrimination, whether by minimization of the issue or by avoidance (both of which you have advocated) will not be tolerated by the subjects of discrimination.

[TriGuy]

I'm siding with Kevin on this. As a member of a minority religion and ethnic background I have dealt with discrimination all of my life. Shielding discrimination behind behind the veil of religion is not acceptable in any case.

[TxMusky]

I have been there, try living on the border in the USA and not being able to find work because you do not speak spanish. That sucks.

Oh well keep the fight going, I have already said I do not have a problem with gays or anybody else for that matter, to each his own. Seems like this whole thread was started to stir a pot. Pot stirred.

[Honda]

I'm siding with Kevin on this. As a member of a minority religion and ethnic background I have dealt with discrimination all of my life. Shielding discrimination behind behind the veil of religion is not acceptable in any case.

Now that's funny no pun intended but a Muslim lady was just recently awarded damages in New York City because the police department made her move her veil from her face to take her mugshot. Her complaint stated that it violated her religious rights and her face should have never been disclosed. So I guess what I'm saying TG if the baker don't want to make cakes for the gay guy and you say he's hiding under the veil of religion how come this lady can hide under the veil of religion and not get her mug taken. You see you guys just want it both ways and in the end wanted your way there is no tolerance for opposing views

[TriGuy]

Now that's funny no pun intended but a Muslim lady was just recently awarded damages in New York City because the police department made her move her veil from her face to take her mugshot. Her complaint stated that it violated her religious rights and her face should have never been disclosed. So I guess what I'm saying TG if the baker don't want to make cakes for the gay guy and you say he's hiding under the veil of religion how come this lady can hide under the veil of religion and not get her mug taken. You see you guys just want it both ways and in the end wanted your way there is no tolerance for opposing views

you misunderstand. You cannot select a group based on identity. You can have a standard of decorum such as politeness which when violated you may refuse to continue service. but you cannot serve everyone but one group based on color, religion or otherwise. Now on the mug shot the police did violate their religion in that men that were not family members were present when their hijab were removed when the photos were taken. They women had asked that in accordance of their faith the photos be taken in private by a female photographer and that was the reason for the settlement. get the full facts straight...https://tinyurl.com/yco3sju3

[Kevin]

there is no tolerance for opposing views

Not when that opposing view is about treating a group as second class, you are correct.

Discrimination against a group, refusing them service, telling them to ride in the back of the bus, separate drinking fountains and park benches and hotels and schools, none of these are valid life choices that need to be accommodated.

And the point is that the next generation, which does not view being gay as anything other than another facet of the range of normal human behavior, will not tolerate it under any circumstances. The 1A isn't a license to violate the 14A.

[TxMusky]

Give it up Honda, the same bakers made and sold their goodies to any and all gays that came into their shop. This one time, the wedding cake in particular the bakers tried to beg out of making. The gays took it as the bakers never ever served gays and blew a gasket.

We had this same argument years ago with the same culprits with the same verdict. I think this thread was preplanned to stir up the old rage and argument for some reason, It has run its course and should be shut down.