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Thread: Wonder if pork will be cheaper?????

  1. #16
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    Trump doesn't really want tariffs Trump doesn't want to hurt the American people Trump is looking for fairness and a modicum of Equalization in trade policies. He is a businessman and realizes if you don't twist these folks a little bit you're going to get nothing just like we have been getting forever. I don't think this is a long-term issue I think it's simply making a point.
    OPINION....a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

  2. #17
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    higher tariffs only beget higher tariffs
    And That can also be used when saying taxes should be raised on the rich and corporations. Taxes go up, guess who pays for the extra tax, the consumers who buy those products. Why is it okay to raise taxes, but so wrong to raise tariffs? It is the exact same ending. The people will pay for the extra tax and we already pay enough right?

  3. #18
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    ....
    Last edited by Phillbo; 04-12-2018 at 12:15 AM.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by TxMusky View Post
    And That can also be used when saying taxes should be raised on the rich and corporations. Taxes go up, guess who pays for the extra tax, the consumers who buy those products. Why is it okay to raise taxes, but so wrong to raise tariffs? It is the exact same ending. The people will pay for the extra tax and we already pay enough right?
    Wow. So much education needed on economic theory.

    There are so many many differences between taxes and tariffs. First, taxes are decided after a process of debate and voting by elected representatives. Tariffs are announced and implemented.

    Second, taxes are an outgrowth of funding our government. Tariffs are about punishing other governments.

    Third, raising taxes do not historically lead to trade wars with other countries. Tariffs do.

    Do you need more or is that enough?

  5. #20
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    Bottom line, any additional money paid into taxes or tariffs either one, the consumer pays the extra. Period

  6. #21
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    So you are against tariffs now? That's good to read.

    And actually, you are incorrect on who pays the tax. Part of the burden of the tax comes in the form of extra money out of consumer's pockets, true, but part comes from the loss of revenue to the producer as a higher cost of the finished product leads to fewer people buying that product. So your statement that only the consumer pays the extra is simply not true and shows you don't really understand the economics of taxation or tariff.

    Which should give you pause when you opine so conclusively about it. Kinda like I used to be on the subject of fracing.

  7. #22
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    Higher taxes/tariffs BOTH lead to fewer people buying the products. SO now because you do not think that the prices rise on both instances, that I am too stupid to talk about it? I guess we should all bow down to your great wisdom.....NOT.

  8. #23
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    I never said prices don't rise in both situations. Could you show me where I specifically said that? The effect of a tariff is just like a tax.

    My disagreement with you was about who bears the burden. The burden is shared between consumers and producers. Your point was that only the consumer bears the burden. That is just flat wrong.

    This might help you understand more about the burden of a tax:

    Similarly elastic supply and demand
    Most markets fall between these two extremes, and ultimately the incidence of tax is shared between producers and consumers in varying proportions. In this example, the consumers pay more than the producers, but not all of the tax. The area paid by consumers is obvious as the change in equilibrium price (between P without tax and P with tax); the remainder, being the difference between the new price and the cost of production at that quantity, is paid by the producers.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_incidence

    I can explain the graphs if you would like. Just let me know.

  9. #24
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    And another round of retaliation:

    President Donald Trump ratcheted up the trade war rhetoric with China on Thursday, saying he was considering another $100 billion in tariffs on the country.
    "In light of China's unfair retaliation, I have instructed the [United States Trade Representative] to consider whether $100 billion of additional tariffs would be appropriate," the president said in a statement.
    Poke here

    BATTLECAGE!!! LOL!!!

  10. #25
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    It is really simple Kev, you are trying to hard to complicate an easy issue. The producers pass the costs directly to the consumers. The consumers actually pay for the increased price.

    Taxes get raised, guess what, the company passes the extra costs onto consumers who buy their products. It may not be explained as simple, but a company wants to make X amount of dollars as a bottom line, so they raise prices to make that bottom line.

    You work too hard, common sense is really easy.

  11. #26
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    Tx, did you even bother to read the link I posted to? Your ignorance is invincible. You sound like I did when I was discussing fracing.

    If you need help understanding the graphs, just let me know. I've been teaching economics to college students for over 30 years and believe me, lots of them knew even less than you when the course started. There's no shame in being wrong. You just need to learn about a subject, just like I needed to learn about fracing.

    But that would mean you have to admit that someone knows more than you do about a subject. I don't think your ego could take it. I was able to do that, publicly, about fracing. Are you able to do that about something you really don't know as much as you think you do?

  12. #27
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    Yea and Obama taught Constitutional law too, did not make him right.

    Kev, you still have the problem of overthinking something. This argument that I am presenting is in the most basic of forms, simple and to the point. It needs no graphs, charts or any long instructional classes to understand. I will give it to you again, Bottom line if a company has a set dollar amount they want to make as a yearly profit, it does not matter of there is a tariff imposed on their business or a tax imposed on their business, they will raise their prices up accordingly so that they will meet the set dollar amount they want to make for the year.

    I am just an ignorant, stupid ass fool I guess, but that is the easy way of putting the very simple explanation of how raising taxes or imposing a tariff on a company will BOTH cost the consumers more. They are both the same as far as the end game.

  13. #28
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    Tx, this isn't my opinion about how a tax works. This is 200 years of settled economics.

    Go learn about the subject. You are looking foolish. It is like saying fracing is no more complicated than drilling a hole in the ground and squirting in water.

    I've taken the time to post a thread about this. You can learn more if you want. Or you can continue looking foolish. Your choice.

  14. #29
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    Kev, obviously the economic geniuses are not that bright. We as a Country are 21 trillion in debt. Us stupid people did not do that, "real smart folk" did. I'll just sit here with my dumb grin drooling on the laptop while checking the positive balance in my bank account. It ain't much, but it is posted in black letters not red, like the economic scholars have to look at when they review Americas balance sheet.

  15. #30
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    We as a Country are 21 trillion in debt. Us stupid people did not do that
    Economists did not do that either. Your elected representatives did.

    And by that comment, you apparently don't know the difference between macroeconomics and microeconomics. You keep digging that hole, man. Stop before you hurt yourself.

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