Charter Member
So in other words, you don't have any concrete example to base your accusation upon?
You are the one making the charge so it is up to you to provide the evidence of actual corruption, not just opinion by outsiders. All I've seen is innuendo but nothing concrete in all the charges about the FBI. No one can point to an actual case of where bona fide corruption occurred that materially affected the outcome.
Guest
Comey and McCabe were fired because of their corruption, I rest my case as far as actual evidence goes. What they did got a govt employee fired and that is almost impossible to do.Originally Posted by Kevin
Do not blame McCabe on Trump, OPR found enough evidence on him to recommend that he be fired, that is very eye opening in itself.
Charter Member
You actually don't know that Comey was fired for corruption. McCabe lied to investigators about whether he granted access for an interview. I've already said what I thought about McCabe - he deserved to be fired.
In neither case was any case shown to be materially affected. No one has been shown to have been accused who should not have been, no one has been shown to have escaped accusation that should have been. And before you say "but Hillary!", you don't know what evidence was collected, what the standard of prosecution is for that evidence, what discussions were had leading up to the decision, etc. In other words, you don't actually KNOW that she should have been prosecuted and was not. You have opinions by outsiders, that's all.
So you still have not provided an example of corruption of the agency, just one person that lied in a matter that did not affect any prosecution.
Guest
It is a major infraction to leak things to the media, the head of the FBI doing it is 10 times that. He knew that any of his agents doing the same would be grounds for him dismissing them, he was the top dog, no excuse for that. But then again he had a history of being an attention whore.
Hilliary signed a paper that said what every person who deals with classified materials get to sign. She had classified email on her illegal personal server at her home. She took a hammer to govt property and smashed her phones, which could be charged as hiding evidence. That is plenty for a govt official, especially the position she was in, sorry, she knew.
Comey also knew that he was going to be fired the first day of Hilliary had won. There would have been not a word said by the Dems or the Repubs if she had done that, and we both know it. Comey also made conflicting statements under oath in front of committee, they are not even pursuing that at this time. By him stupidly publishing a book it might bring it back to the forefront.
Charter Member
Did Comey leaking stuff materially affect any investigation? If not, you have a blabbermouth but not anything that affected any investigation.
On Her Regal Clintoness - you have an opinion about what should have been done but you don't know if what was found rose to the level of a prosecutable offense, nor are you considering what was done in similar cases in the past. Those discussions are not available to the outside world and as such, you don't have concrete proof that she should have been prosecuted but was not. You have an outsider's opinion, nothing more.
You also have no way of knowing what would have happened if Clinton had won, so using your forecast of what might have occurred had things been different as proof of corruption is kind of silly. It did not happen so we won't ever know. Not to belabor the point but I'm OK with that. I didn't want Clinton to become President.
Comey's statements under oath to Congress have no bearing on the course of any investigation and do not show that the FBI was corrupt. Congress can investigate his statements at any time and once they do, we'll know more but right now, you don't have anything except an opinion. You don't have facts.
So you still haven't shown a case for corruption at the FBI or DOJ. Opinion is not fact.
Registered Member
Some folks just don't have the intellectual Firepower to be the all-knowing and All-Seeing as some do.
OPINION....a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
Charter Member
So true. I've often bemoaned that very thing. I'm glad to find another with the same opinion!
What do you think we should do about that, you and me?
Charter Member
The charge that the FBI is corrupt bothers me a lot. I see it as politically motivated, an attempt to protect Trump by tainting any results of an investigation that might hurt him.
It is ripping down one of the institutions of our country for a political purpose and it is a really bad idea.
I remember when the FBI WAS actually corrupted by J. Edgar Hoover. He had his own agents collect compromising info on politicians so that he could blackmail them. He sent agents to infiltrate activist movements to agitate for violence, which he then used to suppress these movements. This was Operation COINTELPRO.
As a result, there was a massive loss of trust in our government and our societal institutions. It was really bad. No one believed anything and that loss of trust had generational impacts.
The thing is, all this happened due to actual, real, proved corruption. The corruption was exposed when hard evidence emerged. There is none of that in this case with Trump. There is a disagreement with judgment calls, there is innuendo and insinuation but no actual hard evidence so right now, all we have are people not privy to the process who don't like the outcomes because of political ideology, but willing to drag us back to the bad old days of the Church Commission when people just assumed that if the government said something, it must be lying. Those were bad days and it took decades to recover from them. Being willing to drag us back into that swamp, for no other reason than political tribalism, is not the action of people who love their country.
Guest
Oh please, two guys were fired and we all know that getting rid of worthless govt employees is almost impossible. Comey and McCabe were shown the door pretty easily, very high up in a LEO organization.
Think about what you just wrote, think. Let me add a couple of names to the mix Stryk and Page. Does their involvement as shown by their secret texts back and forth not raise your eyebrows?I remember when the FBI WAS actually corrupted by J. Edgar Hoover. He had his own agents collect compromising info on politicians so that he could blackmail them. He sent agents to infiltrate activist movements to agitate for violence, which he then used to suppress these movements.
If those examples I just gave do not give you some chilling facts, there is no hope to make you think rationally. You hate the man and your hatred is overshadowing rational thought. That is very dangerous as you are not alone in letting your hatred run things, many leaders in the MSM and the Dem party are ill with the same sickness.
Charter Member
Two agents were rightly fired but that does not mean an entire agency has been compromised. Note that these two agents, when found out, were canned. That shows that the agency itself is not compromised, but like any human institution, picks up a bad apple at times.
And Comey and McCabe were NOT fired for being corrupt. One seems to have been fired in order to thwart an investigation and the other for lying about access for reporters. That's a big difference and raised eyebrows are not the same as criminal activity.
Nothing is done in a vacuum and there are lots of people involved on just about every decision of consequence, which means everyone answers to someone, which is how these individuals were exposed.
Conservatives are raising judgment calls that they disagree with to the level of corruption in an effort to protect their god and savior - Trump. They are willing to rip apart institutions for political purposes.
The damage done by this tribalistic fervor will be long-lasting.
Guest
They ere fired over some very corrupt circumstances and more charges could be forthcoming in the future, you are not able to convince me or just about any Conservative, they were not corrupt due their actions and the job they held.
You admitted that they were exposed by some actions, that tells me the corruption goes deeper than just the two of them.
Charter Member
Three of the four agents were exposed by the normal processes of oversight and control, which means the system is working and doing its job to keep the house clean. The fourth was fired by a man looking to save his own skin.
Where is the agency-wide corruption conservatives are talking about?
Guest
LIke an onion, we keep peeling back the layers to find the bad ones. SO you now admit to having a few bad apples, so that makes my statement correct, there was corruption in that organization. Thank You
Charter Member
Every single agency has some bad apples. That is the human condition. If you want to take credit for the human condition, that's fine but I think Adam and Eve have you beat.
You are alleging the entire FBI is corrupt. That's a different thing.
And note that the normal processes of oversight and control caught these three people. Where is your evidence of agency-wide corruption, Tx?
Registered Member
! I know many local FBI agents they detested director Comey. The ranking file are great people and great service to this country. The upper levels were politically corrupt and directed by the previous Administration. Now whoever is going to be the first wise-ass to come in and ask me to prove it can get over themselves. I don't do research for anybody
OPINION....a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
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