Trump's war

[TxMusky]

Actually I think China is around number 5 on the list. They do own a bunch of it.

China should think about that before shafting us with any trade deals.

Ummm sorry but you had your chance to worry about the debt and did not say a word. Obama and his first all Dem Congress put a huge chunk of that debt up. In fact I think obama by himself racked up as much debt as ALL of the other Presidents combined. Then he saddled the Country with a Healthcare system that not only added another large chunk and then had it fail miserably. Ye many future generations will have to pay for the foulups that our generation has caused. Another reason why we never need to vote for another Dem or liberal candidate until they learn that America comes first, not some other immigrant from another Country. Our future generations are worth more than a stupid illegal immigrant voting.

[TxMusky]

Here is the breakdown, America actually owns the most of its own debt.

The U.S. debt is $21 trillion. Most headlines focus on how much the United States owes China, one of the largest foreign owners. What many people don’t know is that the Social Security Trust Fund, aka your retirement money, owns most of the national debt.

The U.S. Treasury manages the U.S. debt through its Bureau of the Public Debt.


The debt falls into two broad categories: Intragovernmental Holdings and Debt Held by the Public.

Intragovernmental Holdings. This is the portion of the federal debt owed to 230 other federal agencies. It totals $5.6 trillion, almost 30 percent of the debt. Why would the government owe money to itself? Some agencies, like the Social Security Trust Fund, take in more revenue from taxes than they need. Rather than stick this cash under a giant mattress, these agencies buy U.S. Treasurys with it.


Which agencies own the most Treasurys? Social Security, by a long shot. Here's the detailed breakdown as of December 31, 2016.

• Social Security (Social Security Trust Fund and Federal Disability Insurance Trust Fund) - $2.801 trillion
• Office of Personnel Management Retirement - $888 billion
• Military Retirement Fund - $670 billion
• Medicare (Federal Hospital Insurance Trust Fund, Federal Supplementary Medical Insurance Trust Fund) - $294 billion
• All other retirement funds - $304 billion
• Cash on hand to fund federal government operations - $580 billion.

Debt Held by the Public. The public holds the rest of the national debt ($14.7 trillion). Foreign governments and investors hold nearly half of it. One-fourth is held by other governmental entities. These include the Federal Reserve, as well as state and local governments. Fifteen percent is held by mutual funds, private pension funds and holders of savings bonds and Treasury notes. The remaining 10 percent is owned by businesses, like banks and insurance companies. It's also held by an assortment of trusts, companies, and investors.


Here's the breakdown of holders of the public debt as of December 2016:

• Foreign - $6.004 trillion
• Federal Reserve - $2.465 trillion
• Mutual funds - $1.671 trillion
• State and local government, including their pension funds - $905 billion
• Private pension funds - $553 billion
• Banks - $663 billion
• Insurance companies - $347 billion
• U.S. savings bonds - $166 billion
• Other (individuals, government-sponsored enterprises, brokers and dealers, bank personal trusts and estates, corporate and non-corporate businesses, and other investors) - $1.662 trillion.

In December 2017, China owned $1.2 trillion of U.S. debt. It's the largest foreign holder of U.S. Treasury securities. The second largest holder is Japan at $1.1 trillion. Both Japan and China want to keep the value of the dollar higher than the value of their currencies. That helps keep their exports affordable for the United States, which helps their economies grow. That's why, despite China's occasional threats to sell its holdings, both countries are happy to be America's biggest foreign bankers. China replaced the United Kingdom as the second largest foreign holder on May 31, 2007. That's when it increased its holdings to $699 billion, outpacing the United Kingdom's $640 billion.



Ireland is third, holding $326 billion. The Cayman Islands is fourth, at $270 billion. The Bureau of International Settlements believes it is a front for sovereign wealth funds and hedge funds whose owners don't want to reveal their positions. So are Luxembourg ($218 billion) and Belgium ($119 billion).



After the Cayman Islands, the next largest holders are Brazil, the UK, Switzerland, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Saudi Arabia, and India. They each hold between $14 4and $257 billion.

https://www.thebalance.com/who-owns-...l-debt-3306124

[Fulltimer]

Thank you TxMusky I was just looking up the figures.

The Social Security Trust Fund holds the most debt and the government of China is second on the list of potential lenders. The FED has stopped buying Treasuries.

The US Treasury is placed in an emergency situation with the need to borrow an additional $300 billion by Friday to keep from defaulting so we seem to be at a disadvantage.

[TxMusky]

When is Congress going to pay back SS for all of the money they took from that account and put it into the general fund and then squandered it? And those bastards have the audacity to not give SS recipients cost of living raises.

And it should not be paid back by raising taxes, it should be taken back out of their "pet projects" accounts, the money they use to buy votes and keep illegals happy.

[wacojoe]

...starting with gifts to NGOs both here and abroad.

[Fulltimer]

When is Congress going to pay back SS for all of the money they took from that account and put it into the general fund and then squandered it? And those bastards have the audacity to not give SS recipients cost of living raises.

And it should not be paid back by raising taxes, it should be taken back out of their "pet projects" accounts, the money they use to buy votes and keep illegals happy.

Damn. That is just wrong.

By law all excess funds raised from the Social Security deductions have always gone into Treasury notes, in other words loaned to the Treasury.

For all these years there have been more going into the SS Trust fund than going out.

When the income from the FICA doesn't cover the benefits being paid out the Treasury notes will start being cashed in. That does not mean the Trust Fund is going bankrupt it just will need to start liquidating its assets.

Being that the Trust Fund holds the largest amount of the National Debt that means taxes will have to be raised to pay the money back that has been borrowed.

Remember the Bush Tax cuts? That was money the Treasury borrowed.
Remember the Trump Tax cuts? Again money borrowed.
The Treasury is having to borrow an additional $300 Billion before Friday to forestall a default.



So which "bastards" are you referring to?

[TxMusky]

No, the Congress decided to put the SS funds into the General account and then spent it all.

Funny how we always hear about SS running out of money, which was funded by the people and their company they worked for, yet we still have welfare money that was never funded in any way as a "special" account for helping folks who needed a hand up. Now we have generations using welfare as their main source of income, it is no longer what it was intended to be.

Quit playing the tax cut card, the govt was never allowed to just tax and spend at their leisure. Pull out your pocket Constitution and the founders told us exactly what the govt was supposed to collect and spend taxes on. That was a major issue because one of the main reasons for telling King George to go F#*k himself was because of excess taxation. The Country was founded on the two things that the Dems now want to control, guns and taxes.

[Fulltimer]

No, the Congress decided to put the SS funds into the General account and then spent it all.

Funny how we always hear about SS running out of money, which was funded by the people and their company they worked for, yet we still have welfare money that was never funded in any way as a "special" account for helping folks who needed a hand up. Now we have generations using welfare as their main source of income, it is no longer what it was intended to be.

Quit playing the tax cut card, the govt was never allowed to just tax and spend at their leisure. Pull out your pocket Constitution and the founders told us exactly what the govt was supposed to collect and spend taxes on. That was a major issue because one of the main reasons for telling King George to go F#*k himself was because of excess taxation. The Country was founded on the two things that the Dems now want to control, guns and taxes.

Please, Educate yourself and then come back and discuss the Social Security Trust Fund.

https://www.ssa.gov/oact/progdata/fundFAQ.html

Congress did decide to put money collected from a tax on wages in a Treasury account and decided it would be called a "Trust Fund" in the 1930s.

It is not a Trust Fund because it is the depositor's money but they have no fungible assets or claim to it.

It is a treasury account that draws interest and as such is simply a loan to the US Treasury, a part of the National Debt.

I am a fiscal conservative and always have been. I do not care what the Congress decides to spend money on as long as they raise the revenue to pay for it.

Voting in programs or spending money on overseas adventures is OK by me but stop the borrowing to do it.

The Federal Government should be able to borrow in case of emergencies but not to simply placate those who decide they are "Taxed Enough Already". They are taxed enough when the revenue raised equals the money spent. Any time there is a surplus such as during the Clinton Administration those surplus funds should be used to pay down the National Debt.

As for King George and excess taxation, that was not the issue. The issue was Taxation Without Representation. They wanted a say in what taxes were collected and what the revenues were spent on.

Well, there was also the fact that King George cut the tax on Tea to undercut the tea smuggler's prices in the colonies. That is another history lesson altogether.

[wacojoe]

We have made up our collective minds to ride the debt horse until it falls over and dies while we spur it. Get off this, “We will pay it back sometime bull-crap.” We have no intention or means to pay back $21,000,000,000,000+ without devaluing the dollar and calling a day.

[Fulltimer]

We have made up our collective minds to ride the debt horse until it falls over and dies while we spur it. Get off this, “We will pay it back sometime bull-crap.” We have no intention or means to pay back $21,000,000,000,000+ without devaluing the dollar and calling a day.

Fiscal Liberals have I suppose but Conservatives like me will still stand on the principle of a balanced budget and responsible fiscal policies.

[wacojoe]

Fiscal Liberals have I suppose but Conservatives like me will still stand on the principle of a balanced budget and responsible fiscal policies.

Well, Don, that thinking is curiously quaint, but an anachronism relative to thinking so dimly remembered by both parties as to be a party joke. As long as some people and/or institutions harbor the fictions that go behind the dollar’s value, and have no better place to invest, we will stumble ahead into the darkness until reality dawns. I hope fantasy prevails a few more years anyway, while we are entertained with passing fads and the day’s political piccadillos like who boffed a sex worker a decade ago or chances of repealing a Bill of Rights Amendment.

[TxMusky]

Fiscal my arse, this coming from a guy that moved halfway across the country to avoid paying a small tax on an RV.

Voting for Democrats and supporting Obama and Hilliary is not even close to being fiscally anything, you lie like a dog. Supporting ANY democrat makes your statement false as well. They have never been close to fiscally conservative and never will be, they have to buy votes to get elected.

[Fulltimer]

Well, Don, that thinking is curiously quaint, but an anachronism relative to thinking so dimly remembered by both parties as to be a party joke. As long as some people and/or institutions harbor the fictions that go behind the dollar’s value, and have no better place to invest, we will stumble ahead into the darkness until reality dawns. I hope fantasy prevails a few more years anyway, while we are entertained with passing fads and the day’s political piccadillos like who boffed a sex worker a decade ago or chances of repealing a Bill of Rights Amendment.

The last time we had a surplus in the revenue the decision was whether to use it to pay down the National Debt or return it as a tax cut to the wealthy.

The more conservative position was to pay down the debt but we chose to return it.

That was not so bad the first year and the excess was returned. But then the Fiscal Liberals in the Republican party decided to start borrowing huge amounts to continue "paying back" what had already been paid. It took President Obama his whole term to bring the nation out of the recession that Bush's "Tax Cuts" caused.

Now we are back on that same old slide of Borrow and Spend Republican policy.

Let's get back to a conservative fiscal policy.

[TxMusky]

You are wrong. Maybe the terrorists knocking down the WTC and the bust that was caused by the lending on money to people who had no way of paying their mortgages caused that. Tax cuts did not. AGain I ask, who the hell are you or the Dems to regulate how much tax we pay? The politicians need to quit spending OUR money, yet they vote themselves a raise every time.

Obama added about 9 trillion to the bill himself with his failed policies. His obamaCare fiasco itself added over a trillion dollars down the drain. Those idiots could not even get a simple website up and running with over a billion dollars. Try again, you are full of it.

Oh and by the way, the wealthy are people to.

[Fulltimer]

You are wrong. Maybe the terrorists knocking down the WTC and the bust that was caused by the lending on money to people who had no way of paying their mortgages caused that. Tax cuts did not. AGain I ask, who the hell are you or the Dems to regulate how much tax we pay? The politicians need to quit spending OUR money, yet they vote themselves a raise every time.

Obama added about 9 trillion to the bill himself with his failed policies. His obamaCare fiasco itself added over a trillion dollars down the drain. Those idiots could not even get a simple website up and running with over a billion dollars. Try again, you are full of it.

Oh and by the way, the wealthy are people to.

It is the Congress that determines how much the government spends and how much revenue is raised to pay for those expenditures.

The GOP is the Borrow and Spend Liberal party.
The Democrats are the Tax and Spend Conservative party.

I don't care what Congress wants to spend as long as the revenue to cover those expenditures is raised. That is the Conservative position.

By insisting all programs are paid for through existing revenue the frivolous ones are repealed.

You want a war? Raise taxes.

You want a parade? Raise taxes.

Do not expect the next generation to pay your bills and extravagances.