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  1. #1
    Join Date
    10-23-01
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    Taking bets on collusion and obstruction

    I'm putting up hard coin to back up my prediction - Mueller won't find anything directly on Trump colluding with the Russians with respect to the election.

    Oh, he'll find dirt. No one as rich as Trump is clean and his nature is to push the envelope, so Mueller will find financial dirt but nothing directly connecting Trump's campaign to Russia.

    Why?

    Because here in my part of the world, Trump has been almost daily fodder for decades. He delegates stuff out. He never gets involved himself in the down and dirty so other people might go to jail but not him. His management style pretty much ensures that he stays one level removed from anything. It is the NY way. NY is mobbed up big time and that's how the bosses stay clean, by keeping everything one level removed from them.

    But I'll go even further. I don't think that, even apart from Trump, there is anything actually connecting the Trump campaign to Russia.

    Why?

    Because this group has been stepping on their junk from day one. They were totally inexperienced, completely unprepared for campaigning and then governing. This is the gang that can't shoot straight. They couldn't get a good conspiracy going if they tried and if they did, based on the leaks I've seen, they wouldn't have been able to keep their mouths shut about it if it had happened.

    So with respect to collusion with Russia with respect to the campaign, I bet Mueller comes up a dry hole. Folks will then have to deal with the fact that he's the President, fair and square, and get on with their lives.

    On obstruction:

    Dry hole. Sessions will be found to have kept Trump from making Presidency-ending mistakes. Lots of thunder will roll but no heads. Trump will have been saved from himself by people he will never thank or even understand what they did for him, which makes him an ingrate in addition to his other personality flaws but not a criminal.

    On finances:

    No bet. Too opaque for me to even hazard a guess about that or how it relates to Trump's policies towards Russia.

    I'm on the record. Who else wants to be?

  2. #2
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    10-21-01
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    Why? I think you covered my bases. The only real possibility will be some hokey “obstruction of justice” allegation for firing a guy who proved he needed firing in every way possible and who was spearheading an investigation of non-crimes, which proceeded anyway. A dirty report will issue that D’rats can use if they get majority control of the House to impeach Trump and will lead nowhere because it takes a 2/3 vote to convict. It will paralyze Trump’s plans though, which is enough for Democrats, I think.
    ...............
    “You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out.” — Too fundamental to have an attribution


  3. #3
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    Kevin--great observations. It's about my take that Trump himself didn't do it, but on the other hand a bunch of his helpers tried and maybe did. Util the mess comes to light, we all just guessing.
    Fred

    "Everyday I beat my own previous record for number of consecutive days I've
    stayed alive."

    'Take care of yourself, and each other.'

  4. #4
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    10-20-03
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    Fred you wouldn't have an opinion if somebody gave it to you. Just kidding buddy, you wait until I take a side and then you take the opposite.

    It is funny how all of the political crap works, none of the main participants will ever be strapped for anything because they have concrete plans to keep them protected. All politicians operate the same way and the Dems were willing to take the chance and look stupid by pressing this whole Russian charade and for what? Hilliary was never going to take the job, it was not going to be hers no matter what, so why all of the hoopla?

    Back on topic, They will not find any collusion because there was not any to find. The russians were meddling just to be meddling, they had no dog in the hunt they actually wanted to win, it was all just a study in being a big PITA and to cause trouble. Come to think of it, it reminds me of a couple of guys here, Fred and Don, that don't really have an opinion, they just like to stir the beans.

    Sorry Fred, ya gotta admit it describes ya pretty well.

  5. #5
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    I don't think the President actively supported the Russians interference but those around him seems to have. The emails released by Donald Trump Jr. describes their attempts to accept Russian interference.

    From: Rob Goldstone To: Donald Trump Jr. June 3, 2016, 10:36 AM
    Good morning

    Emin just called and asked me to contact you with something very interesting.

    The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.
    I have worked on many political campaigns: Libertarian, Democratic, and Republican and if I had received this type of information I would have ran from it like my hair was on fire fearing it an attempt to implicate me or the campaign I was working on in an illegal sting.

  6. #6
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    The policing authorities will gladly accept incriminating evidence on fellow crooks of any kind from anybody any time without blinking, so why should an opposing campaign not accept incriminating information against a crooked Hillary campaign. But, and it’s a big “but,” there is zero evidence that any Trump minion actually got anything from Russians.
    ...............
    “You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out.” — Too fundamental to have an attribution


  7. #7
    Join Date
    10-22-01
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
    I'm putting up hard coin to back up my prediction - Mueller won't find anything directly on Trump colluding with the Russians with respect to the election.

    Oh, he'll find dirt. No one as rich as Trump is clean and his nature is to push the envelope, so Mueller will find financial dirt but nothing directly connecting Trump's campaign to Russia.

    Why?

    Because here in my part of the world, Trump has been almost daily fodder for decades. He delegates stuff out. He never gets involved himself in the down and dirty so other people might go to jail but not him. His management style pretty much ensures that he stays one level removed from anything. It is the NY way. NY is mobbed up big time and that's how the bosses stay clean, by keeping everything one level removed from them.

    But I'll go even further. I don't think that, even apart from Trump, there is anything actually connecting the Trump campaign to Russia.

    Why?

    Because this group has been stepping on their junk from day one. They were totally inexperienced, completely unprepared for campaigning and then governing. This is the gang that can't shoot straight. They couldn't get a good conspiracy going if they tried and if they did, based on the leaks I've seen, they wouldn't have been able to keep their mouths shut about it if it had happened.

    So with respect to collusion with Russia with respect to the campaign, I bet Mueller comes up a dry hole. Folks will then have to deal with the fact that he's the President, fair and square, and get on with their lives.

    On obstruction:

    Dry hole. Sessions will be found to have kept Trump from making Presidency-ending mistakes. Lots of thunder will roll but no heads. Trump will have been saved from himself by people he will never thank or even understand what they did for him, which makes him an ingrate in addition to his other personality flaws but not a criminal.

    On finances:

    No bet. Too opaque for me to even hazard a guess about that or how it relates to Trump's policies towards Russia.

    I'm on the record. Who else wants to be?
    For the most part, I think you are correct. However, there is a wildcard that could possibly change the dynamics. Trump made significant trips to Russia. Until the resent revelations regarding Ms "do me" I had thought Trump would not go that low---imagine me giving him too much credit

    In any event, a western business man traveling in Russia cannot avoid being "offered" a selection of local "attractions" within minutes of checking into a hotel. In fact, the "attractions" will be brought to the door of your room by one of their business agents--who is almost always a hotel employee--with a side job.

    I had given Trump credit for having enough sense to say no----until recently. The chances of someone having videos----what do you think?
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
    "Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
    “You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis

  8. #8
    Join Date
    10-20-03
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    15,885
    Videos are probably not in existence. Let's take a common sense look at the ordeal. He ran against some of the most lowlife of people, his own party was against him, and that is before we even think about mention the corrupt Clinton machine and the notorious liberal media. If there was even a screenshot of something out there it would have been plastered all over the front of a major newspaper and every broadcast network in existence. I'll use the video that NBC released with Billy Bush as exhibit A, if there were anything worse than that out there it would have been used by now.

    Hilliary lost, the immediate reaction and every reaction since then would have "outed" any video or audio evidence if there were any. The Clintons made trips to Russia, Russian business gave their foundation 100 million dollars, Bill got 500K for a single speech and yet the lemmings fail to connect those dots. If that does not raise any eyebrows, and that is out in the light of day, then Trump must have done nothing or very little while he was there.

    Putin and the Russians do not need to do anything more to make America look stupid, American media and Dem politicians are already doing that for them.

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