Charter Member
He must be up for re-election or maybe he's wanting to make a run at being part of the fed. The Federal government is the United States of America! of which Utah is a part of. Whats he going to do call out the national guard to seize the land? Hey maybe that simple act will get the ball rolling, maybe this whole mess will get some action going, the problem is the players are all the same.Originally Posted by blaze
This is your mind on drugs!
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Fred the States pay taxes they collect to the federal govt. Nothing is free, all of that land was bought and paid for either in blood or by money the govt paid to another Country for it.
Dave, if the States were defined by a set of boundaries and the land contained inside that boundary, should that not belong to the State, unless it was set aside as some kind of National Park? Why have state lines if the feds want to own a percentage of it? The BLM is a worthless corrupt POS just about everywhere they are based, so it has to be the feds in DC who are calling the shots. They do not need that type of power over that much property and if the truth be known, it belongs to the people, not the bureaucrats that inhabit DC.
I guess Ben was typing while I was.....great minds think alike.
Charter Member
When I say Federal Government I am meaning the people of this United States. These lands came under the control and ownership of the United States, through purchase or acquisition. The States had nothing to do with it and in fact when most of this land was acquired the States who now seem to want to claim it weren't even imagined--- Utah being a perfect example.
The land, as I have been saying repeatable in this thread, belongs to the people of this United States----- and the people of the individual States have no more claim to this land than anyone else in this country.
As for taxes being paid to the Federal Gov. by the States----please expand on that since I am ignorant of any such tax.
I do know the Federal Government pays "fees" to the local governments in-lieu of taxes:
Poke here to read more."Payments in Lieu of Taxes" (PILT) are Federal payments to local governments that help offset losses in property taxes due to non-taxable Federal lands within their boundaries. The key law is Public Law 94-565, dated October 20, 1976. This law was rewritten and amended by Public Law 97-258 on September 13, 1982 and codified as Chapter 69, Title 31 of the United States Code. The law recognizes the inability of local governments to collect property taxes on Federally-owned land can create a financial impact.
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
"Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
“You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis
Nov 5, 1946 - Nov 19, 2018This is an interview with one of the women that was in the vehicle which was stopped by the FBI when they killed the rancher. It appears like they were going to kill them from the start.
Charter Member
How is it that these people somehow are endowed with unlimited credibility and the FBI agents are all lower than whale chit?
I think I'll hold off for a bit.
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
"Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
“You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis
Charter Member
This has got to be so embarrassing to Dave. Dave and I are the only two "Devils Advocates" since the beginning of this whole thing. I started it but he had no clue because I'm unworthy and he has me on ignore. Somebody warn him to change his argument so that he's not agreeing with me.
All in fun Mr. mods, but then that's why I'm on ignore.hehehehehehehehehehe
This is your mind on drugs!
Guest
Any tax that is collected by the State such as sales or property can be considered as collection. How about income taxes earned and paid in that State? I know all sorts of Fed money also gets sent back for roads and other things but you get the idea.As for taxes being paid to the Federal Gov. by the States----please expand on that since I am ignorant of any such tax.
The jerk politicians in DC have no right to these lands either.
Nov 5, 1946 - Nov 19, 2018you are right Dave. That's just another brick in the wall Like I said before, wait till all the facts are in before making judgment. Initial report from FBI that I heard was that he came out with guns blazing. Somewhere in this sordid mess is the Truth. I hope it can be found.
Little Post Script. You will not hear from me until Sat. or Sun.. I will be camping out in the woods in a summertime tent in Southern Mississippi at The Mississippi Lead Fling. Mostly Pellet rifles.
I have to side with Dave and Mike G on this one. I have also taken notice that there was no mad rush by the rest of the citizenry of the USA to join or assist them. Aside from sending of Dildo's and bags of gummy dicks in disdain of their actions there was no flood of "supplies" either.
"The only thing that we learn from torture is the depths of our own moral depravity"
Charter Member
James, I'm still lost
You said above:Please explain how and where that happens.Fred the States pay taxes they collect to the federal govt.
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
"Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
“You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis
Guest
They collect sales taxes, payroll taxes, any number of different taxes and send them on.
Charter Member
I don't believe that is correct James. I don't believe there is any Federal sales tax and all State sales taxes that I am aware of stay with the taxing authority--the State.
Federal payroll taxes collected by an employer are submitted directly to the Federal Government.
To the best of my limited knowledge tax revenue flows from the Federal Government down to lower governments but not in reverse
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
"Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
“You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis
Registered Member
Technically there is unless the excise tax was repealed and nobody told me...But you are correct in that the state never sees it...It goes directly from the manufacturer or importer to the feds...I'll verify that what you said on state sales tax and federal payroll taxes is also true, at least in the great state of Texas...
It's still too damned complicated though...I'm in favor of some type of flat tax, and a complete overhaul of taxing authorities......Ben
The future is forged on the anvil of history...The interpreter of history wields the hammer... - Unknown author...
Registered Member
The problem is when the feds gobble and close off public land to logging, mining, ranching these communities become poor with 50-60% govt employees and the rest on unemployment welfare etc. We have already been through it here in Ferry County....same thing in Burns, Oregon....there is a human toll in this that never gets mentioned. If anyone watched any of the protests in Burns yesterday would understand this. This is pitting American against Americans. I don't think anyone has even grasped the situation in Oregon.
Registered Member
me, waving over here, I'm with you guys. Still fascinated that anyone is cheering the outing of undercover agents as if they are political operatives at the campaign rally... and I'm shocked at the idea that Mgrist is being ignored ... really? what, are there just 5 or so members here... what is that? is it an old guy thing?
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