Hillary Clinton says rich not paying their fair share

[Saggy]

[QUOTE=Dave Grubb;911383]While there are those that have unquestioned selfishness for the fruits of their good fortune, there are those that regard their success as a blessing, partially earned, partially a result of good fortune. Those that understand that success is not all of their doing realize they have an obligation to those not as blessed as they have been.
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Only getting the job in the first place may be partly due to "good fortune". Sticking with that job for many, many years, and moving ahead is 99 percent EARNING IT. And "the fruits" are EARNED "fruits" for you and especially for your family----and the decisions of when, where and how to spend it----or how much to "give" are yours----and yours only. I don't question or tell others how they should spend their "earned" money and I don't expect them to advise me on that situation --unless I ask them to. Most folks don't question paying taxes----until those collecting begin WASTING AND OVERSPENDING those monies--AND KEEP WANTING MORE. This is when it turns from "taxing" to "stealing".

[Kevin]

Being fortunate to have been born white, to parents that were middle class and valued education, who taught me to work hard - these were things that were not of my doing and made me more fortunate than those who had none of these advantages.

The older I get, the more I understand that only part of any success I've had is due to my own efforts. There is, in my opinion, too much self-congratulation about how one did it "all by myself" and "no one helped me" when that is, to me, self-delusional. I've had a row that was easier to hoe than some others because I had advantages that were not of my own making and I don't think it is wrong to recognize that.

Yes, I earned much. But I was also given much.

[Saggy]

[QUOTE=Kevin;911405]B
There is, in my opinion, too much self-congratulation about how one did it "all by myself" and "no one helped me" when that is, to me, self-delusional.

Don't know where you're "hangin' out" Kev. I don't think I've ever heard the "self-congratulation" stuff you find "too much" of. A whole bunch of being proud of their work, yes. "Self-delusional----no one helped me", no.

[Kevin]

I hang out here and have heard it many times, in many posts, including your last one.

Only 1% of your success can be attributed to good luck? I don't know what the appropriate percentage for me would be. I don't know how to measure such things. I do know that things that have been given to me were the foundation of the things I earned, so I'd have to say it was more than 1%. All I can say is that I didn't do it all by myself. Part of it was having the good sense to pick the right parents.

Reminds me of the dinner prayer I once heard. It comes from Jimmy Stewart in "Shenandoah"

"Lord, we cleared this land. We plowed it, sowed it, harvested it. We cooked the harvest. It wouldn't be here, we wouldn't be eating it if we hadn't done it all ourselves. We worked dog bone hard for every crumb and morsel but we thank you just the same. Amen."

[TxMusky]

Tx; as for your rather thinly veiled attack on Don---I suspect if will foster a smile for Don--and says far more about the attacker than the attacked.

Kinda of like the one I get on my face when you go making your comments huh?

[Saggy]

[QUOTE=Kevin;911407]I hang out here and have heard it many times, in many posts, including your last one.

Only 1% of your success can be attributed to good luck? I don't know what the appropriate percentage for me would be. I don't know how to measure such things. I do know that things that have been given to me were the foundation of the things I earned, so I'd have to say it was more than 1%. All I can say is that I didn't do it all by myself. Part of it was having the good sense to pick the right parents.
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That was maybe 1% AFTER having the luck in getting the job in the first place---like I said. Most of the "foundation" was really "given" to us before we basically set out on our own---by our parents and our friends. These are the same things I would hope ALL parents try to provide.

If you're saying that it's only luck that my Father didn't jump my mom's bones just to add her to his ever growing "bimbo" list----then, O.K.---like you, I had the good sense to pick the right parents. I never claimed to have gotten where I am (which is happy with what I have) "all by myself". Of course we all have help doing what we do----because that was part of their job too. I don't think of it as luck as much as teamwork-------just earning whatever success we can achieve.

My REAL LUCK was is finding someone who would put up with me as my wife. The First one, for 24-1/2 years, mother of my 5 kids; and 2nd one, for the last 25 years and still as adorable as the first day I met her. Now that's GOOD LUCK, right there.

[DanH]

... "Self-delusional----no one helped me" ...

Errr ... Saggy , I wouldst point out y'all owe your later success in life to the splendid start i gave you, for $2.00/hour, on my survey crew. Prior to that, you and one of the Hill twins were selling horse/etc.manure for local gardeners. You met your first wife at the Talmadge drive-in diner on our lunch break. Plus, after that first summer, you took all the money you made off me, bought a Mercury convertible and disappeared to California. Obviously, the work ethic you acquired under my tutelege has stood you in good stead since, although there remains some controversy over the firecracker you put in a banana and handed to Hank Blossom.

[Saggy]

Errr ... Saggy , I wouldst point out y'all owe your later success in life to the splendid start i gave you, for $2.00/hour, on my survey crew. Prior to that, you and one of the Hill twins were selling horse/etc.manure for local gardeners. You met your first wife at the Talmadge drive-in diner on our lunch break. Plus, after that first summer, you took all the money you made off me, bought a Mercury convertible and disappeared to California. Obviously, the work ethic you acquired under my tutelege has stood you in good stead since, although there remains some controversy over the firecracker you put in a banana and handed to Hank Blossom.

I didn't forget Oh Great Seer and Teacher of all good things!!!!! I just didn't think all the others in "The Nest" would have believed any of it. Is selling a dead rat to my little brother for a quarter even believable?----Hey! that was a gallon of gas back in those days.

[LawDog]

I'm still waiting for an answer to the question to all that think the rich don't pay their fair share, what is a fair amount for the govt to take from them? 50%, 60%, 70%, or all of it? How much of what they make should a person be allowed to keep?

[Fulltimer]

I have never considered myself rich although I consistantly earned right around the median income level and that would indicate at least 50% of the population made less, and in many instances a lot less, than I.

I never did obsess over the amount of income taxes I paid. I knew many folks who did. They would be stressed for a month before April 15th trying to find just one more deduction so they could save a couple of dollars on their taxes. It just never seemed a good return for my effort especially when I discovered the way the tax rates where laid out.

The poor paid the same rate on their income as the rich did at the same level. You could not reduce the rate on the first level and you only paid the higher rate on the amount you made over that level. It was not worth the stress to obsess about it. I feel sorry for those who waste so much of their life and happiness obsessing over it.

I confess to anger over what some of my tax money was used for but always tried to philosophize about it that mine was only pennies in the larger scheme of things.

As far as whether I "earned" my wages or not I have to simply say my supervisors were happy with my work effort and level of production and I turned down several promotions over the years.

I do consider it the American way to try to make more money with less effort and I continue to base the value of a job on the amount of renumeration versus the amount of effort and time I have to expend. Right now I am delivering newspapers and getting about $20.00 per hour of work. That is including commute time as hours worked and I consider myself coming out pretty good. The newspaper income with my retirement check and the Social Security places me bringing in more than I have ever made before and I have way more descretionary income than ever before.


Life's been good to me, so far.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhQx7...eature=related



don

[LawDog]

I'm still waiting for an answer to the question to all that think the rich don't pay their fair share, what is a fair amount for the govt to take from them? 50%, 60%, 70%, or all of it? How much of what they make should a person be allowed to keep?

Still waiting :whistle:
I guess no one is willing to put a number out there about how much of the money one earns they should be allowed to keep huh?

[Kevin]

You've already received one answer, from me, so I don't think it can be said that "no one" has answered you.

[Tommy]

It's ok that no one wants to put numbers to what they want to pay. Waxing poetic is fine and dandy, but its hard to eat literature, so keep on keeping on. Once you put pencil to paper and agree to an arbitrary number, youd be beholden to it like a contract. let someone else make the decision and whine about it later, so here we go again..

[FredK]

You got a number to shoot out there LD?

Me I would do away with all deductions. No deductions for the mortgage, taxes, second home, .......etc would be one place to start. Another throwin all the under the table sales of motorcycles, cars, boats and garage sale crap one fails to list. Or that favor you did for your "friend"for a few $$$.

Imagine a one page IRS form.

In fact forget the whole thing and delete the IRS and just have a government tax on all stuff sold. Start at 12% and adjust up or down as needed.

[Tommy]

You got a number to shoot out there LD?

Me I would do away with all deductions. No deductions for the mortgage, taxes, second home, .......etc would be one place to start. Another throwin all the under the table sales of motorcycles, cars, boats and garage sale crap one fails to list. Or that favor you did for your "friend"for a few $$$.

Imagine a one page IRS form.

In fact forget the whole thing and delete the IRS and just have a government tax on all stuff sold. Start at 12% and adjust up or down as needed.

Id consider a flat tax pretty darn equal, personally.