NYC bomb

[Mike]

Where exactly do you think the fireworks were, attached to the headliner? Gas fumes are extremely volatile. People even ignite themselves talking on the cell phone while filling their gas tanks. And you can't just "open" the valve on a grill bottle, it has a safety. But, having only minored in Fire Investigation and Arson Investigation, with numerous explosive classes under my belt, I'll bow to your expertise on how often that situation would result in an explosion.....

1. Cell phones don't ignite gasoline while fueling. That is a myth.

2. Yes, you can "just open the valve" on the older grill tanks. Unlike the current tanks, there is no safety valve on them. I have at least 3 of older tanks if you'd care to inspect them.

3. Most any idiot could have detonated that car. But, this particular idiot was incompetent.

[LawDog]

can only be secondary if a primary is accomplished ... heck, he could have soaked the whole car in gasoline just before walking away and been more likely to accomplish ignition fromn fireworks...

And had a car fire instead of a primary explosion from gas fumes. Just go on and keep believing what you want, since you obviously know more about fires and explosions than I . We just lucked out that this didn't go off...

[LawDog]

1. Cell phones don't ignite gasoline while fueling. That is a myth.

2. Yes, you can "just open the valve" on the older grill tanks. Unlike the current tanks, there is no safety valve on them. I have at least 3 of older tanks if you'd care to inspect them.

3. Most any idiot could have detonated that car. But, this particular idiot was incompetent.

1) Actually, the jury is still out on it, some experts say they can, some say they can't. Regardless, there is no doubt gas pumping fires have been caused by static electricity...

2) You'd have to look for the older tanks, you cannot buy them anymore...and once again, setting secondary explosions are common....

3)True, but would you sit in a car filled with gas cans and let me throw some firecrackers in it with you and feel secure that they wouldn't blow the gas fumes?

[2ndthyme]

I'm in total agreement that it was luck that it didn't go off... but so far you've shot down everything you've tried to claim... safeties on gas bottles can be disabled, a car fire would have set off the secondary explosions that you claimed I didn't understand, (while a flash over and burn off of fumes might not) which is all besides that fact that this person couldn't ignite the fumes because it didn't understand where they would be.

I could set this same scenario up 10 times and I doubt it would work once much less twice....

[2ndthyme]

by virtue of throwing them in you would have a better chance of one landing on the floor with the fumes

[LawDog]

I'm in total agreement that it was luck that it didn't go off... but so far you've shot down everything you've tried to claim... safeties on gas bottles can be disabled, a car fire would have set off the secondary explosions that you claimed I didn't understand, (while a flash over and burn off of fumes might not) which is all besides that fact that this person couldn't ignite the fumes because it didn't understand where they would be.

I could set this same scenario up 10 times and I doubt it would work once much less twice....

Well I'll set it up out in the back field....you wanna sit in the car?

[LawDog]

by virtue of throwing them in you would have a better chance of one landing on the floor with the fumes

You said yourself they were beside the gas can...

[LawDog]

I'm in total agreement that it was luck that it didn't go off... but so far you've shot down everything you've tried to claim... safeties on gas bottles can be disabled,

I'll repeat, I don't think they wanted the safeties disabled, I suspect the propane conainers were for secondary explosions aimed at first responders...

[2ndthyme]

which have not been reported to be on the floor of the car.

[2ndthyme]

so what.... they didn't accomplish a primary... If he wanted to set up a primary, one tank leaking during the fireworks was a better chance at it... what do you suppose he thought the m 80s taped to the outside of the tank would do? lol

[LawDog]

which have not been reported to be on the floor of the car.

I'm sure it was on the dashboard.....

[LawDog]

http://www.foxnews.com/

The Times Square car bomb “would have caused a significant fireball” and casualties had it successfully detonated, Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said at a news conference Sunday.

The extent of the damage that the bomb could have caused was still unclear Sunday evening, as police were trying to figure out what the substance was that was packed inside a gun locker in the car near propane and gasoline tanks. Kelly said the substance had the look and feel of fertilizer.

Damage from a detonation likely would have come in stages.

First, there would have been casualties in the area around the car. Kelly said the explosion of the gun box, which also contained firecrackers and wires, would have sent shrapnel flying through the air.

Then, it’s possible that the burning Nissan Pathfinder might have ignited other parked cars and possibly their gas tanks, said Maria Haberfeld, a professor at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice and former lieutenant in Israel’s national police force.

The explosions would likely create panic, Haberfeld said, sending pedestrians and vehicles scrambling to get out of Times Square. People could have gotten trampled and pushed under cars.

“You’re not talking about some remote place in Montana,” Haberfeld said. “You’re talking about one of the most densely populated places in the country.”

Fear and economic damage would have followed the physical devastation wrought by the bomb.

“There is a potential for a quite sensational event,” Haberfeld said. “It’s not necessarily the severity of casualties but the effect it creates.”

:whistle:

[2ndthyme]

well I know you are trying to make me look silly LD but I do recall that cars have seats. I also know that if those seats are not removed its very difficult to get a 5 gal can of gas on the floor between them. then of course I can read ...

Officials removed from the SUV three propane tanks weighing between 15 and 17 pounds, Kelly said, comparing them to the kind typically used on backyard barbecues. One of the tanks had more M-88 firecrackers attached to the side, Kelly said, some of which detonated inside the vehicle.

Also found in the vehicle's back seat were two full five-gallon gasoline containers, Kelly said. And between those gasoline containers was a "16-ounce can filled with between 20 and 30 M-88 devices," he said, adding that two clocks on the floor of the vehicle's back seat were connected by wires to the can containing the firecrackers,

go ahead and suggest that I think the gas cans and fireworks were on the roof rack now... don't forget your rolling eyes guy too

[2ndthyme]

and what we are talking about here is the failure to accomplish detonation... not what could have happened if the man had any knowledge of what he was doing or at least a bit of dumb luck

[LawDog]

well I know you are trying to make me look silly LD but I do recall that cars have seats. I also know that if those seats are not removed its very difficult to get a 5 gal can of gas on the floor between them. then of course I can read ...




go ahead and suggest that I think the gas cans and fireworks were on the roof rack now... don't forget your rolling eyes guy too

Also found in the vehicle's back seat were two full five-gallon gasoline containers,

I doubt very seriously they were in the back seat, rather in the back seat area of the suv...