The Real Republican Civil War

[FredK]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...s_opinion_main

The struggle between Marco Rubio and Charlie Crist for the Florida Senate seat symbolizes the rift between the reformers and the establishment in the GOP.

Good take on what's happening in the party IMHO.

[FredK]

Here's a few comments to help your thoughts:
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The real political issue over the long run (which in the midst of this crisis is being resolved over the short run) is which economic class will take the hit 1) The corrupt Upper Class; 2) the Middle Class (now the biggest loser); or 3) the Lower Class?

The Rubio side will sacrifice the Lower Class by reducing their Social Security and other possible Social benefits and drive them to a Malthusian end. The backlash would be the rebellion of the Lower Class (which we must assume the Rubio's have a plan to contain).

The Crist side will sacrifice the Upper Class by eliminating its corrupt means to power, thus preserving the subsistence of the Lower Class but meet head on the power of the Upper Class to use its money to win in the Courts and its political power to win in Congress as the funders of elections and through its lobbying power to convince politicians that the success of the Upper Class lay at the foundation of any recovery in the US economy.

Meanwhile, the Democrats continue with the solution made famous by Princeton economist J.K. Galbraith - preserve the corrupt Upper Class as an international investment class while the American worker economy is devastated by competition with Asia (while the Upper Class increases its power by profiting from the Asian defeat of the US domestic economy.) A Socialism for the combined Middle Class and Lower Class under Obama type Socialism (it is really not Marxism which is based on technology and production - not money as Upper Class wealth) creates economic equality within this melded Socialist Class while the Upper "Free" Class continues to profit by exploiting differences in the US and Asian economies. The Tea Party is the counterrevolution against implementation of Obama's "Galbraithian Plan".

The Republicans are the busters of Obama type "Galbraithian" Socialism - they will fight against a two-classed society of Capitalism for the Rich and Socialism for the Poor. Yet Rubio has no solution for the Malthusian end of the Lower Class he deprives of social subsistence - and he is using the Tea Party movement (Anti-Socialist Middle Class older white males) against the interests of the Lower Class who would otherwise be the beneficiaries of Obama Socialism. (The Middle Class would be its benefactors.)

Crist would fight the corruption of the Upper Class in the courts and the Congress, but their power is overwhelming and stacked against him.

This is the Revolution and the Counter-Revolution. So far, nobody is clearly winning.

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The title of this article could not be any more correct and understanding why a civil war within the Republican Party is needed is to understand that the core principles of individual freedom and personal sovereignty can not happen as long as progressive elements within the Republican Party hold sway. Compassionate conservatism, social conservatism and neo-conservatism are not conservative philosophies at all; rather, they are progressivism from the right and require governmental activism to accomplish their goals and objectives. The issue that the Tea Party is trying to help people understand is that the problem actually isn't a democrat/republican thing; it is a progressive/classical liberal thing.

Understanding the Tea Party movement and what it stands for and is trying to accomplish isn't difficult. Yes it is a decentralized group but thanks to the internet it has been able to codify its priorities and principles through an online balloting process. While the Tea Party is comprised of members from across the political spectrum its principles and ideals are actually only compatible with the classically liberal wing of the Republican Party, or too a lesser extent the Libertarian Party. Progressivism has no appeal to these groups because they correctly understand that progressivism is anathema to and incompatible with a political philosophy based the individual, not the state.

Tea Party participants also want to “transform” America, however, their vision of transformation is one back to our founding principles which produced the greatest level of prosperity and individual freedom ever know to mankind, and away from the disastrous path Wilson placed us on when he launched the modern progressive era.

The attached link will take you too the “Contract from America”. I suggest that you read it and forward it on to your elected representative with instructions to support the 10 items that comprise the contract. The Republican Party would do well to adopt this contract, in doing so it would surely regain a majority in both houses of Congress and would retake the White House in 2012. America would restore itself as well.

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Americans self-identify as Conservatives over Liberals 2:1.

As long as the GOP does not get that, they will continue to shed voters and elections.

When voters want more government, more spending, more interference in the market, less wealth, dumber and lazier teachers, and more support of people making bad choices and of organized laziness (AKA unions), voters vote for Democrats.

Republicans who don't understand that, like McCain, who think that voters will vote for liberal-lite are just too dumb to be entrusted with power, just as a certain RNC leader blows $340K on a Hawaiian confab is too dumb to be chairman.

The Tea Party is the current version of the Reagan Coalition: Fiscally conservative, not attacking social issues, anti-big-government. It includes fiscally conservative republicans and Reagan Democrats and LOTS of Independents.

As the poster above noted, if the GOP can't figure out that working and legislating to please the NY Times is exactly what the GOP base HATES, then the GOP deserves to be displaced by the Tea Party.

I am not a supporter of 3rd parties. But that won't matter if the GOP continues to support people like Crist and McCain; it will implode and the Tea Party will be the ONLY fiscally responsible party standing for election.

[Billy_Rightwing]

Us Republicans bad, you Democrats good, tea party bad, Palin bad, Obama good, you loose in 2010 and 2012 then Republicans good.

[chew 'n' spit]

Us Republicans bad, you Democrats good, tea party bad, Palin bad, Obama good, you loose in 2010 and 2012 then Republicans good.

funny as hell................

[Fulltimer]

Rubio has some issues he will have to answer to.

While the Speaker of the House he abused the GOP credit card to the tune of thousands of dollars that he did not claim as income.

I don't much like either of them.

The Internal Revenue Service is reportedly investigating Florida senatorial candidate Marco Rubio’s use of a Republican Party credit card.
Rubio, a former Speaker of the Florida House of Representatives, has been leading Florida Governor Charlie Crist in recent polls as the GOP candidate for a seat in the U.S. Senate. Rubio has attracted backing from conservatives and Tea Party activists, while Crist has been criticized for accepting stimulus funds from the federal government last year and more recently for vetoing a bill that would have eliminated tenure for public school teachers and linked their pay to student performance. Crist is weighing a decision to run as an independent.
However, Rubio has been criticized in campaign ads for using his Republican Party American Express card to pay for personal expenses, including repairs to his family minivan, grocery bills, plane tickets for his wife, and retail purchases. Rubio blamed accounting errors and said he has reimbursed the party for over $16,000 in expenses. He reportedly racked up over $100,000 in expenses on the card while he was House Speaker, but he claimed most of the expenses were business related.

Any personal expenses that were not reimbursed by him would have to be claimed as personal income on his tax returns. The IRS is reportedly investigating his expenses, along with those of two other state party officials, according to the Miami Herald and the St. Petersburg Times.

He is another slimy crook just like his predessor Ray Sansom who is indicted for fraud and racketerring during his term as Speaker of the House.

Sansom, a popular two-term county commissioner who rose quickly through the state House ranks after his 2002 election, already faces criminal charges of official misconduct and perjury and could even be expelled from the House before the next legislative session begins.
The criminal charges were brought in Tallahassee by a grand jury convened by Meggs. Grand jurors said Sansom conspired to fund millions in state funds to Northwest Florida State College.
It said $6 million of those funds, budgeted as multi-use educational facility/Emergency Operation Center emergency personnel would actually have gone to construct an airplane hangar for developer and Sansom supporter Jay Odom.
College President Bob Richburg and Odom have been indicted alongside Sansom. The three are scheduled to go to trial Sept. 29.

But state Sen. Don Gaetz, R-Niceville, Sansom’s longtime political friend and ally, said he was astounded to read what Meggs’ records indicate Sansom spent.
“I don’t believe the kind of expenses released by the state attorney in Tallahassee are the kind I’m familiar with in fund raising,” he said. “I’m not familiar with expenses of this magnitude being tied to fund-raising at the state-wide level.”

If you’re a fiscal conservative you need to be trusted with the people’s money,” he said. “And if you’re a party leader you need to be conservative with the money of the people who donate to your political party.”
“The people who dig into their pockets for 25 dollars, or for 500 dollars, are entitled to good stewardship.”
Sansom said he would only discuss particular expenditures, such as the $839 Starbucks bill and trips overseas, “off the record.”

He ended a phone conversation when he was informed the conversation would be recorded and made public.

don

[chew 'n' spit]

Lot's of folks have lot's to answer for. This disaster that is among us is not partisan.............

[TxMusky]

Lot's of folks have lot's to answer for. This disaster that is among us is not partisan.............

Very true, thats why we need to go out with the old and in with the new, from the bottom up or the top down, either way will work.

[Fulltimer]

Very true, thats why we need to go out with the old and in with the new, from the bottom up or the top down, either way will work.

Cool.

You vote your guys out and we will vote ours in.

don

[TxMusky]

I think the country has seen the value of "your guys" and realizes their mistake of putting any more idiots into office. The country cannot take any more of spend and tax and put it on the next bunch such as the way your heros have done. They are toast and they know it and are backtracking at every available opportunity saying we are stupid, illiterate or just dont understand what they really meant.

Don, your people are done. Look around you at the many different races, cultures and political affiliations who are now joining together to raise their voices as one against the government that has deserted them.

[Fulltimer]

I think the country has seen the value of "your guys" and realizes their mistake of putting any more idiots into office. The country cannot take any more of spend and tax and put it on the next bunch such as the way your heros have done. They are toast and they know it and are backtracking at every available opportunity saying we are stupid, illiterate or just dont understand what they really meant.

Don, your people are done. Look around you at the many different races, cultures and political affiliations who are now joining together to raise their voices as one against the government that has deserted them.

Hey, no problem.

You go ahead and vote the rascals out indiscriminately.

I will vote for the candidate I feel best represents my positions.

[TxMusky]

So were you lying when you promoted all of the ideas and speeches Ron Paul was giving a few years ago.... or are you lying now,by taking a 180 degree total opposite turn by extolling the virtues of Pelosi Obama and Reid? Or do you just casually change your values and commitments, like the wind changes direction on a daily basis?

To be honest, your the type of voter that scares me. The honor system you follow is the exact reason why Obama could go out into the streets and buy votes for a pack of smokes and a cheap bottle of wine. You have no set standards FOR an idea or a plan, just AGAINST a particular person or a bump in the road. Your "people" are trying to stifle the speech of others, yet you say and do nothing, all the while telling anyone who will listen that somebody in the Rep party is a racist because of the values that they hold dear are being taken away. It has nothing to do with race, and on other issues you like to protect not only race but free speech as well. You cant have it both ways and expect people to take you seriously. You railed against GW with black helicopter theories that even the most out there person had to question, yet you were still allowed to say them. Why dont you give that same pass to the Tea Partiers that you hate so vividly? Its because you dont have a real set of standards, you just want things to go your way all the time without taking the other sides ideas into the mix.

[Fulltimer]

So were you lying when you promoted all of the ideas and speeches Ron Paul was giving a few years ago.... or are you lying now,by taking a 180 degree total opposite turn by extolling the virtues of Pelosi Obama and Reid? Or do you just casually change your values and commitments, like the wind changes direction on a daily basis?

To be honest, your the type of voter that scares me. The honor system you follow is the exact reason why Obama could go out into the streets and buy votes for a pack of smokes and a cheap bottle of wine. You have no set standards FOR an idea or a plan, just AGAINST a particular person or a bump in the road. Your "people" are trying to stifle the speech of others, yet you say and do nothing, all the while telling anyone who will listen that somebody in the Rep party is a racist because of the values that they hold dear are being taken away. It has nothing to do with race, and on other issues you like to protect not only race but free speech as well. You cant have it both ways and expect people to take you seriously. You railed against GW with black helicopter theories that even the most out there person had to question, yet you were still allowed to say them. Why dont you give that same pass to the Tea Partiers that you hate so vividly? Its because you dont have a real set of standards, you just want things to go your way all the time without taking the other sides ideas into the mix.

I am not the one advocating to vote everyone out of office in 2010.

I am not the one attacking the representative form of government that has served America well for 230 years.

I think you should be afraid of voters like me who do not vote based on a slogan we saw on a bumper sticker or simply as a protest because we feel inferior.

Stop hating America so much and educate yourself before you spout off all the time.


don

[TxMusky]

Answer the question! It not a hard one, you in the past have accused the Repubs of doing some things that only god himself could figure out, how you could come up with such a looney idea. Isnt that "hating" on your part?? Why was it okay for you to spew forth your hatred and fallacy, yet you dont want anyone from the "other side" to do it?? I am not the one hating America, I am not the one who just when the elctions started liked their country for the very first time. I am not the one advocating that the whole country go broke, because if you disagree with this admins policies, you are either racist, stupid or a Nazi. You want to take away someone elses first amendment rights because you think your candidate is better. Well he's not, and as long as you want to speak your mind, no matter how off the wall it is, I think you have every right to do so. Why do you not want to grant that same right to anybody that is against this admins policies?? Are you the only one granted rights?

I think you should be afraid of voters like me who do not vote based on a slogan we saw on a bumper sticker or simply as a protest because we feel inferior.

Thats a crock of chit! Where have you seen the words "Change, Hope, Yes We Can........" Barry's whole campaign was centered around a stupid slogan, so how you managed to pull that quote out of thin air is beyond me.

I am not attacking our form of government, I am attacking the idiots that are supposed to be doing their jobs as elected officials, and they are complete and total failures at what they are and have been doing. That includes both former and present reps from both sides. If you want to try to back me into a corner you better bring more ammunition than this incredibly asinine comment............

Stop hating America so much and educate yourself before you spout off all the time.

Practice what ya preach brother!!