A look at imigration through a different and less biased lens

Here is the reality of where we are today----and how the shortage of workers can and will impact our economy.

The root article, which is much longer and more detailed, was pulled by dimbart from the WSJ---I picked dimbart to avoid the normal outburst about east coast liberal media.

Now---more to the issue----the people needed to fill this pool of labor for Foxconn are not marching along the road somewhere in Mexico----but this same shortage exists across the country in a long list of occupations----including, as I mentioned in another thread, crab pickers. That in-turn, shutdown packing houses and killed the market for the Chesapeake crabbers---they had a much diminished market. That problem was a direct result of a reduction in work visas this year----now I ask---who does that hurt?

Back to Foxconn---which will generate a long list of secondary businesses and with them a broad range of labor needs---from skilled to unskilled----where are they going to come from in the current environment of hate and fear?

So---here is my question: We are spending all our attention and dialog on closing the borders with walls and soldiers-----what are we doing to satisfy our very real economic demands and their ancillary labor demands?

Added in edit:

This just put up on the WSJ:

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Updated Nov. 6, 2018 2:33 p.m. ET
Unfilled jobs in the U.S. exceeded the number of unemployed Americans by more than one million as the summer came to a close, a sign it is increasingly difficult for employers to find workers.

There were a seasonally adjusted 7.01 million job openings on the last business day of September, the Labor Department said Tuesday. That compares with 5.96 million jobless Americans actively looking for work during the month that the unemployment rate fell to a 49-year low of 3.7%.

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And...after answering the above question I suggest it might just be long overdue to fix our obviously (and unarguably broken) immigration laws by opening an adult dialog of how to best accomplish that goal.

We need to get beyond the noise of demagoguery and move on to constructive bipartisan solutions. The current buffoonery serves no benefit other than throwing peanuts to the trump tribe.

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Originally Posted by Dave Grubb

And...after answering the above question I suggest it might just be long overdue to fix our obviously (and unarguably broken) immigration laws by opening an adult dialog of how to best accomplish that goal.

We need to get beyond the noise of demagoguery and move on to constructive bipartisan solutions. The current buffoonery serves no benefit other than throwing peanuts to the trump tribe.

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Do you think that will ever happen?

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Originally Posted by FredK

Do you think that will ever happen?

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I think i will continue to push for it to happen.

Instead of adding coal to the fire by trying to brow beat someone, that someone usually being me, why not put forth YOUR idea of how to make things better and we can start from there. But since you instead chose to be the agitator, I will make mine known.


Are these going to be full time workers? If not are they going to work a couple of months and then be unemployed for the rest of the year? I remember having a discussion about the pipeline coming from Canada and Freds point was it was not going to create much full time work, so it was not worth it.


I would support visas for foreign workers and hopefully the service entrusted with lining up the workers for "crabbing" could also network with other job providers to make sure the foreign worker could maybe work year round at other jobs. I have no problem with that at all and after passing a background check, if that is even possible in their home Country, we could at least do it for America, to see if the worker is wanted for anything here.


I do know a bit about ranch workers, and some farm workers as well. If a person could get with the farmers and ranchers, and make sure that their wages would go up if they became "guest workers" and could apply for citizenship if it could be proven that they have been there for a certain amount of time...5 years or whatever number is agreed upon, then they can start the process for permanent citizenship.


I also know many oilfield workers and people in Construction that are illegal, but they are good, hard, dependable people who do everything but have legal status, who should also be included in this mix. They too should be allowed a way to gain permanent status as they have employment and have kept their noses clean.


The ones we do not need, which a large part are probably in those numerous caravans, are the ones who are just looking for a handout and to continue on with their drug and smuggling habits. If you think that some of these guys, and there are a bunch of them, are not sent to be advance scouts for the smuggling of drugs and other contraband, as well as human beings, you are fooling yourself. Drug cartels are better organized than many would ever suspect, and they will capitalize on anything.


Now I started the ball rolling and did not try to spread any contempt, next. Let's have a discussion.

OK if I agree with all you said Tx, how do you figure out those that are the drug smugglers and free loaders?

Not say there are some in the mix but pray tell how you recognize them, you have a diving rod, a gift from God or just your feeling.

And tell me what your thought are on those already here native born that are drug smugglers and free loaders what is your solution to them? Shouldn't that be the same yardstick for the new ones that in also.

I still maintain you document them give them a SS number and a green card and let them find work and I'll bet that a majority will turn out just like most of us. Decent hard working folks. Going to get bad apples-sure. But by giving them a SS number they are paying into a system and unless they become citizens there's no return for that money. They wouldn't be eligible for any government handout either without citizenship.

The stunt Trump's doing isn't the right thing.

Fred, what Trump stunt are you referring to. Those who immigrate to the US needs to do it legally. If we do need legally imported workers we need to try to get skilled workers in the areas where we are lacking skilled workers and just not take everybody willy-nilly.

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OK if I agree with all you said Tx, how do you figure out those that are the drug smugglers and free loaders?

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Well Fred, that is why they need to do it the legal way by filling out the paperwork and having the checks made on their background. You get the idea?

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Not say there are some in the mix but pray tell how you recognize them, you have a diving rod, a gift from God or just your feeling.

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Again, why take the chance. That is also why we need to have the paperwork filled out LEGALLY, so that we do not have to use a divining rod or have a gift form God. In this case the gift will be having a look at their records. Why do people want sex offenders identified and registered, maybe so they can see if there are any people they need to watch out for, to protect their family.

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And tell me what your thought are on those already here native born that are drug smugglers and free loaders what is your solution to them? Shouldn't that be the same yardstick for the new ones that in also.

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Yes same yardstick. We do not need drug dealers or smugglers here. If they are not carrying their weight, why should you or I have to support them? As I understand it, people come here for opportunity, that means they have the opportunity to work and be successful , not to be able to sit back and collect taxpayer dollars and get free food and housing. They have to work, the same as the rest of us. That would also apply to natural born citizens here, you have to work. As Dave showed in another thread we have more jobs than available workers. Quit giving them free checks and instead hand them a list of places that are needing help and hiring.

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I still maintain you document them give them a SS number and a green card

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Then lets do it, any ideas as to how? You are somewhat misled when you say that they are paying onto our system and are not able to get benefits. 1) that is a choice THEY made, when they snuck in illegally, those are the penalties of skirting the laws. 2) Many are paid under the table, so they are not paying FICA , SS or income taxes at all. That is cheating us and our system as much as it is cheating them and further more, if they receive ANY benefits at all, it cheated the millions of American workers who have chipped in all of their lives for those benefits.

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The stunt Trump's doing isn't the right thing.

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Why bring him into this at all? I was going to leave him and most politicians out of the mix, but since you brought it up....As we now have this problem and it keeps getting worse, all of the Presidents and politicians from about the 1920's have not been able to solve this, so why just ay the blame on Trump? You make your argument look silly with that last sentence. NONE of them have solved it, ALL have talked about it, yet here we are.


Does that help any?

The initial “ caravan “ in addition to all of the who cross the boarder not in such caravans do nothing but lower the pay of those already in country trying to make a living.
Four years ago, after a storm,we had to have our roof shingles replaced . The crew of six who did the job worked hard and it was done in one day. Of the six, only one, the foreman could [ or so they indicated ] speak english. Whether or not they were illegal, I have no idea. I do however firmly believe that they were most likely non union and working for low wages. Now , letting in all the caravan members and those who are forming and following, will create a larger number of people vieing for the available manual labour jobs. This will in turn allow employers to LOWER WAGES .
How is that a good thing for either those currently here or those coming in ? .
Immigration, LEGAL immigration is a good thing. Adding an unlimited number of illegal low skilled and un vetted immigrants is a bad idea. [ Whose time is, if the Dems have there way ] is here.

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Originally Posted by Independent Voter

The initial “ caravan “ in addition to all of the who cross the boarder not in such caravans do nothing but lower the pay of those already in country trying to make a living.

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It is not that simple, the ultimate driver is supply and demand---we are in a situation where demand exceeds supply----there is no parasitic impact to wages by doing jobs now going wanting.

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Four years ago, after a storm,we had to have our roof shingles replaced . The crew of six who did the job worked hard and it was done in one day. Of the six, only one, the foreman could [ or so they indicated ] speak english. Whether or not they were illegal, I have no idea. I do however firmly believe that they were most likely non union and working for low wages. Now , letting in all the caravan members and those who are forming and following, will create a larger number of people vieing for the available manual labour jobs. This will in turn allow employers to LOWER WAGES .
How is that a good thing for either those currently here or those coming in ?

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Again---not the case.

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Immigration, LEGAL immigration is a good thing. Adding an unlimited number of illegal low skilled and un vetted immigrants is a bad idea. [ Whose time is, if the Dems have there way ] is here.

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While immigration and work visas are different animals both need to be considered in a comprehensive policy. Work visas should be based on need and can be either seasonal or for a defined length of time.

Actually me and my partner running a small Construction in San Antonio years ago had to find other work because the Mexican contractors were underbidding us so bad, we would have to pay the homeowner to get the job. They also did not believe in getting permits and took advantage of the mexican workers they hired. If there was a disagreement they would just threaten to report the worker to "La Migra" and the terrified worker would drop it.

That is an entirely different issue-----:off:

How is it off topic, I simply replied to what IV had stated. I believe the proof of what he and I both said was the actual politicians themselves a while back. They were telling everyone that getting rid of the illegals would make the prices of fruit and vegetables go up if they had to pay legal people to do the jobs. Does that not mean that having illegals do the work they pay them less? Tie that into having a excess of illegals wanting work, the price could be negotiated down for wages. Same as the point I made about Construction, they did not file for legal permits and inspections and paid their people very low wages and screwed them on their hours worked. I have seen that with my own 2 eyes.


On a completely different note, it could also be said that the inference itself could be considered as racist, as it seems to infer that illegals are good for nothing but cleaning motel rooms, doing laundry, pushing a broom and picking fruit. Are you going to hire any of these people as engineers?

It's off topic because it doesn't fit Dave's narrative about unlawful immigration.

But for some reason it falls on deaf ears, we Conservatives are asking for LEGAL immigration, but just allowing people to waltz in whenever they feel the need to enter is not only unlawful but highly disrespectful to our system of laws. We have laws in America, it is what separates us from these third world corrupt Country's these people say they are running away from. Why in their minds do they want to make our Country as bad as theirs, by not respecting law and order? That is and will continue to be my stance, we have laws that we the people have to abide by, even when we had our troops in Saudi Arabia during the Gulf War, we tried to respect theirs as it pertained to alcohol and women having headwear on in public. Even though we were over there saving their ass, we did try to follow their laws and customs to a certain extent. That is all we are asking, respect our laws, and join in our customs, if you want to have it your way, stay the hell home.