He paid $1 million for an ambassadorship and bought himself disgrace.
That could apply to a whole litany of people associated with trump :shrug:
Added in edit: 11/05/19
Mr. Sondland has redeemed himself and salvaged his character--- kudos to him.
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He paid $1 million for an ambassadorship and bought himself disgrace.
That could apply to a whole litany of people associated with trump :shrug:
Added in edit: 11/05/19
Mr. Sondland has redeemed himself and salvaged his character--- kudos to him.
It's looking like Mr Sondlands deposition isn't aligning with testimony from several others. Evidently his efforts to save himself are going to backfire
Now were all looking for all the bone heads to add to both left and right.
Is there anything that Trump isn't responsible for or part of? Used to be able to glean information from your posts now all we get is Trump Trump Trump. You're adding proof to your signature if nothing else though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Grubb
Quote:
"Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all."
Please explain this “disgrace” you reference?
I do not criticize trump on his politics nearly as much as I do on his lack of character---he is a disgrace to our country. He is virtually without ethics or morals. If you want to defend someone who goes around grabbing women by their private parts and bragging about it--and lying about anything and everything then have at it---but not me.Quote:
Originally Posted by mgrist
Any truth coming out of trump is purely accidental--he didn't mean it :redmad:
As for Sondland disgracing himself---had I bought a position of honor and then dishonored the position by my actions that would be a double disgrace---if you are fine with that--that is up to you.
I'm not fine with any of it. I wasn't fine with Clinton getting a head job in the oval office by someone other than his wife, I was quickly disregarded by all but one or maybe two. Clinton, ahhh it's ok. Trump. IMpeach him.All of them are the same everyone pulls it all together without making Trump the only villain even if he is. Our government is in a shambles and stands to be in worse shape come election and all we can do is point fingers. Bring Switzerland in to bring a non-bios agenda, Until then let them the politicians fall in a hole and let them get themselves out. They are all scum get them out and start electing people that get things done and don't promise anything. Staying on Trump day in and day out does absolutely nothing, blaming trump daily and night solves not a darn thing. Trump if he needs to go fine but he needs to go no faster than about 400 other politicians. If this sounds convuluted it probably is, it't beed a rough week, a hard week and it's late so give it you best shot, please.
And yet it is so easy for everyone to see. Its ideology. :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Grubb
Curt--to you it might be ideology---to me it is just old fashioned flat out lies.:redmad:
Im not saying the lies somehow flow from ideology - thats on Trump. Im saying which lies we choose to overlook are based on ideology. Its the same no matter which side of the street you are on.
That I agree with---and since I'm not much into lies that leaves me out.
There’s lies, and then there’s damned lies that actually count, such as “Trump colluded with the Russians” and “if you want to keep your doctor & insurance, you can keep your doctor & insurance,” and some people and their vaunted source believe it to the bitter end.
I think Dave nailed it. Trump is dirty and a disgrace. In my opinion, his supporters exhibit an uncanny ability to overlook his faults.
Hunter
Following is an except from an article in today's WSJ:
Quote:
By Rebecca Ballhaus
Updated Oct. 26, 2019 9:16 pm ET
WASHINGTON—A top U.S. diplomat told House committees last week that efforts by President Trump and his allies to press Kyiv to open investigations in exchange for a White House meeting with Ukraine’s president amounted to a quid pro quo, his lawyer said.
Gordon Sondland, the U.S. ambassador to the European Union, told House committees that he believed Ukraine agreeing to open investigations into Burisma Group—a gas company where Democrat Joe Biden’s son once served on the board—and into alleged 2016 election interference was a condition for a White House meeting between Mr. Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, Mr. Sondland’s lawyer Robert Luskin said.
Asked by a lawmaker whether that arrangement was a quid pro quo, Mr. Sondland cautioned that he wasn’t a lawyer but said he believed the answer was yes, Mr. Luskin said.
Mr. Trump has repeatedly denied the existence of a quid pro quo related to his push for Ukraine to open investigations.
Mr. Sondland was testifying as part of the impeachment inquiry, which is examining efforts by Mr. Trump and his personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, to push Ukraine to undertake investigations related to the Biden family and the 2016 campaign. Democrats believe the president abused the power of his office to press a foreign leader to open investigations that could benefit him politically. Mr. Trump has defended his dealings with Ukraine and decried the investigation as a “hoax.”
NBC News has reported that Mr. Sondland was asked whether the arrangement for a meeting constituted a quid pro quo and didn’t dispute it.
Mr. Sondland’s testimony has come under fresh scrutiny since the deposition earlier this week of Bill Taylor, the acting U.S. ambassador to Ukraine. Mr. Taylor’s testimony focused in part on a separate issue, telling House committees that Mr. Trump made nearly $400 million in aid contingent on the Ukrainian president investigating Mr. Biden and alleged Ukrainian interference in the 2016 U.S. election. Mr. Taylor didn’t use the term “quid pro quo” but said he understood the aid to be “conditioned” on the investigations.
Much of Mr. Taylor’s testimony suggested Mr. Sondland was aware of a separate connection between aid and investigations, which Mr. Sondland testified he wasn’t, according to his lawyer. Mr. Sondland told the committees he wasn’t involved in the decision to hold the aid to Ukraine and couldn’t independently corroborate the president’s assertions to him that the money being held up was unrelated to the push for investigations.
The $400 million is the crime. Anyone who who came up with that idea?
Do you want to cede the world to Russia?, say to Putin,, "you want that country? take it. The US isn't going to worry over other ppl's freedoms or sovereignty. We're out of the world power business" screw all those that thought we stood for anything?Quote:
Originally Posted by CactusCurt
Tell me what my $400 million is going to buy me and I'll get back to you.
I don't much care about the rest of the world that expects us to be their sugar daddy and protectors. They need to step up and take responsibility for their own problems. If they want to be allys they need to pay their share of the costs of the partnership. Don't expect us to shoulder the price of their independence.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ndthyme
So yeah. With the exception of being the meanest SOBs in the valley, I think you pretty much have it figured out. We are and must always be the meanest and baddest bunch the rest of the world has ever seen so that we can sleep at night knowing that only total idiots would even think about attacking us.
Well said, Mike...:clap:...Ben
Sadly, we have...Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ndthyme
Hunter
Nope we did that to China..................Quote:
Originally Posted by UTAH
Is it too late to change my stance? I think you are right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Honda
Hunter
So then America should no longer stand for freedom, justice and human rights, just money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike
Well, if you can read all that into my post, feel free to do so. But take note that I never said nor implied what you posted above.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ndthyme
Maybe you should give remedial reading comprehension a try.
Extract from this afternoon's NYT:
Quote:
Sondland Updates Impeachment Testimony, Describing Ukraine Quid Pro Quo
WASHINGTON — A critical witness in the impeachment inquiry offered Congress substantial new testimony this week, revealing that he told a top Ukrainian official that the country likely would not receive American military aid unless it publicly committed to investigations President Trump wanted.
The disclosure from Gordon D. Sondland, the United States ambassador to the European Union, in four new pages of sworn testimony released on Tuesday, confirmed his involvement in laying out a quid pro quo to Ukraine that he had previously not acknowledged. The issue is at the heart of the impeachment investigation into Mr. Trump, which turns on the allegation the president abused his power to extract political favors from a foreign power.
Mr. Trump has consistently maintained that he did nothing wrong and that there was no quid pro quo with Ukraine.
Mr. Sondland’s testimony offered several major new details beyond the account he gave the inquiry in a 10-hour interview last month. He provided a more robust description of his own role in alerting the Ukrainians that they needed to go along with investigative requests being demanded by the president’s personal lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani. By early September, Mr. Sondland said, he had become convinced that military aid and a White House meeting were conditioned on Ukraine committing to those investigations.
The additions Mr. Sondland made to his testimony were significant because they were the first admission by a senior figure who had direct contact with Mr. Trump that the military aid for Ukraine was being held hostage to the president’s demands for investigations into his political rivals. A wealthy Oregon hotelier who donated to the president’s campaign and was rewarded with the plum diplomatic post, Mr. Sondland can hardly be dismissed as a “Never Trumper,” a charge that Mr. Trump has leveled against many other officials who have offered damaging testimony about his conduct with regard to Ukraine.
Are any of you trump fans getting tired of being lied to? (consider that rhetorical)
Read the entire article here.
Mr. Sondland has demonstrated courage and honesty---kudos to him.
You will find VP Pence mentioned in this article as well---and just for giggles, I regard him as an absolute spineless wimp.
The NYTs account of the change in Sondland’s new testimony is significantly inaccurate. Sondland’s exact words now are that he “presumes” there was quid pro quo. What is exactly a “presumption” other than his supposition or guess. It is definitely not the same as testimony that there was quid pro quo...if that matters.
And exactly what makes your version correct?
Oh, I know, trump's current press bimbo said it wasn't so.
The only quid pro quo that has been established is the one Joe Biden confessed.
Excerpted from The HillQuote:
Sondland says "I now recall" a Sept. 1 meeting with top U.S. and Ukrainian officials in Warsaw, where he told an adviser to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky that nearly $400 million in U.S. financial aid was contingent on Zelensky committing to investigations into the 2016 election and Burisma Holdings, a Ukrainian energy company that employed the son of former Vice President Joe Biden, a leading 2020 presidential contender.
"After a large meeting, I now recall speaking individually with Mr. Yermak, where I said that resumption of U.S. aid would likely not occur until Ukraine provided the public anti-corruption statement that we had been discussing for many weeks," Sondland said, referring to the aide, Andriy Yermak.
If we don't have money and lots of it we can't fund Planned ParenthoodQuote:
Originally Posted by 2ndthyme
Do you know what the word presume means.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Grubb
Joe---you really need to lay off the kool-aid. I worry about you :whyme:
The Biden thing was debunked long ago. Even always trumpers, are trying to change the narrative. Wake up my friend :shrug:
So would some of you suddenly hawkish interventionists care to point to a place in the world where it works? (No, I'm not talking about humanitarian aid). We can't even keep the commies at bay in San Francisco.........:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ndthyme